But the rt shoulder wont come off the TSP at start down if the rt hip clears and allow a clear path right?

Maybe a flatter BS and coming down the TSP is insurance against the opposite, a steep BS and "round house downswing?

Much of the difference between the TSP and Elbow Plane is Posture. Add a little #3 Accumulator Angle and Shazam!...:)

So if the Left Wristcock is Level for Impact, then what is the difference between a TSP and Elbow Plane?

Down plane or too vertical?



Right shoulder moving down OUT and forward . . .

Nice ........gotta get my book , there's something about this in there, somewhere. Waist bend.

Anyone who bends their clubs 6 degrees flat ...............

Thanks for the video, thats what Im wondering about.

You want the Pivot via the Right Shoulder to take the Hands down plane towards the plane line/ base line in Startdown, right? The reasoning behind the TSP angle(s). But if the Right Shoulder is above the Inclined Plane (as formed by the Hands and Base Line) , wouldnt the Right Shoulder have to move towards a point above/beyond the Base Line to get the Hands to go towards the Base Line?

I dunno. Hands direct the Shoulder to turn towards where ever , Hands to Pivot, it all works out? With TSP angle you get a definite Alignment with the Right Shoulder moving towards the Base Line in Startdown (only) as if it was gonna smack the ball. Im getting real fond of that actually, then a little Throw and Release. Three stage rocket.

Hey Bucket, look at what this guy is up to. Towel drill, Rotated? Is it a TSP too or not?

The former I believe. Hence the early first reference to "clear the right hip" in 12-3. If you dont the Hands will go out and around , to prevent the collision and take the club with them....outside. Very common back in Homers day. Outside , with an unbending right elbow and then a lot of heavy lifting to sky high hands, Turning Shoulder Plane. The fix began with the Hips clearing an inside path for the Right Elbow ....back and then down.

There's a second "clear the Right Hip" in 12-3 too.......prior to Startdown I believe, dont have my book with me, which I think relates to the Delayed turn with a Hip Slide. This clears a nice path for the right elbow to pass on the downstroke.

Hogan might have the blended the two into one movement......turnandslide. That guy cleared his Right Hip ......he had to, to attack from the inside like he did.

"Well the most important move in golf is the movement of the lower body".

Nowadays some people think you can avoid the slide all together and just turn..... interesting stuff.

Well, I can understand how someone with a Shoulder Turn Takeaway would have a problem Clearing the Right Hip. Golfers using the Right Forearm Takeaway shouldn't have that problem.

The Yellow Book is a little confusing regarding these procedures. In 10-15 Delayed Hip Action, the Shoulders lead the Hip Turn during the Backstroke. This is a Right Forearm Takeaway Procedure. An Option for Shoulder Turn Takeaways is to move the Right Hip out of the way before Start-up.

It gets more confusing in the 7th Edition, "Delayed Hip Action is the only Variation that assures "Clearing the Right Hip" in both directions (2-N-0)."

Let's take a few of these . . . these "intentions" may or may not work for all procedures . . . .

You want the Pivot via the Right Shoulder to take the Hands down plane towards the plane line/ base line in Startdown, right?

In some motions I believe this is correct for some plane angles . . . Here's Brian perfectly on plane . . . seems to be directing his hands toward the plane line . . .




Lovemark on the other hand I would say has an entirely different intention in terms of where his hands are being directed. Note the difference in the relationship of the shoulders to the hands. Note the angle of the left arm when it is parallel to the ground and its relationship to the stance line. Note the difference in the relationship of the left arm to the ground at "delivery" . . . Lovemark seems to be directing his hands at a point INSIDE the plane line . . . and the respective shoulder motions seem to me to support this "intention".

But if the Right Shoulder is above the Inclined Plane (as formed by the Hands and Base Line) , wouldnt the Right Shoulder have to move towards a point above/beyond the Base Line to get the Hands to go towards the Base Line?

I believe you are correct in regard to this statement . . . If you were able to track the motions of the right shoulder you would see that Lovemarks shoulder motion is likely pointing outside/above the plane line . .. supporting that particular handpath.