New Thoughts
 

I have always been a tinkerer, hard to stop... I notice most TGMers prefer blades. I LOVE blades. Hitting the center of the clubface has never been the problem for me, so why not. Right?

Maybe not.

I'm proud to have studied lots of great methods. After trying EVERYTHING, I find that I am what another website refers to as one of those "DAMN TRIPODERS." :)

Watch YODA's swing sequences, at setup and throughout the swing his middle center (hips) never get behind the ball. He is ALWAYS on top of it. Same with my tour model Brian Gay. I watched players on the practice tee at the PGA Championship this year, NOBODY moves behind it on the backstroke, and Brian stays forward with the best of them, maybe THE best.

I am convinced this is the reason for the great success of both "Tripod" swings.

What can destroy this theory really quick?
Trying to help the ball up in the air.

I want to try to trap and drive EVERY ball into the ground, driver through lob wedge. That's how I can keep my alignments and flat left wrist. Never trying to help it up in the air.

I'm going with loft in the driver, 10.5°. I'm going with irons that look like blades, but add loft and spin (AP2). 2010 resolution, I'm going to try to hit every ball low, and let the golf club help me spin and elevate it.

I know I'm goofy, but am I wrong with this thinking?

Kevin

Well Homer did recommend we hit every ball prior to low point accept for special circumstances right. So Id say he would agree with you Kev. Hit down and out through the ball. Add loft to the driver for trajectory if need be. Thats what I did, 10.5 degrees. Yoda has an 11 I believe. Jeff Hull a 12 or something crazy I think. I will occasionally hit a driver with the ball placed forward of low point, which would be my "special circumstances" for increased height.

It an interesting question given that everybody recommends you hit up on a driver these days. When I was fit for my driver at Titleist I made sure that they fit for me both the way they wanted me to hit it (high) and the way I like to tee it up. It sure looks like Tiger traps a lot of drivers when he needs to.

I wonder what the caddies on tour would say about this.

Oh and you can take my tripod away when you can steel my hula hula action , but it will be from my COLD, DEAD (but still clamp like) HANDS.

11 degrees is the most I have used. It really depends on the driver, how it is constructed, position of the center of gravity, open or closed, etc. I am currently using about 9.5.

I would be careful of hitting "down" with a driver. Any downward attack angle will increase the spin which is bad for a driver. I have done much better since I have taken the driver down to low point and had the ball just slightly forward of that. Better launch and lower spin.

Thanks golfgnome.

So you're not quite hitting up then? Right at Low Point under the left shoulder? Is that right? Cool.

My new Titleist D3 driver sets up a little bit different than previous ones Ive had. To my eye it looks a touch open or should I say it has more reverse shaft lean on it maybe? Like its designed for hitting a ball tee'd more forward of low point maybe? It doesnt bother me though, I love the thing. I am hitting more fades than before but I'm angled hinging more now too. I dunno.

Have you noticed some drivers having more reverse shaft lean these days?

All the best for '10.

Ob

I think hitting up on the driver is great as long as I don't flip at it to accomplish the upward hit. I find level works best for me.

Thanks for the reply golfgnome!

I'm not sure I'm brave enough to step away from the yellow book and work on that yet. So far, the principles I'm learning are allowing me to keep it where I can find it, guess I'll just have to stick with playing shorter courses for awhile... :) :salut:

Kevin

Kev Im thinking it maybe isnt a step away from the yellow book if you consider the driver a specialty shot or special circumstance. You tee it at low point or in front of it to get the ball as far down there as you possibly can even it means sacrificing some measure of control, balance a 1-L or whatever. Heck even in regard to the steady head, I see a lot of pros hang back a touch with a driver. Maybe they wouldnt do it if they just teed it up more forward? A subconscious hang back that effectively moves their low point back dynamically for launch angle? Or as VJ Trolio would say moves their ball postion forward dynamically if you know what I mean.

:laughing9

I'm not saying it's wrong O.B. in fact most would agree. Remember, I've been saved from a nasty case of the driver yips, I just want to be sure I can find it, and the YELLOW book along with YODA and Jeff Evans got me playing again.

Once my back heals and I am able to play more and get my confidence back, I will for sure do some experimenting.

Not trying to step on anybody's toes, I have NOTHING but respect for golfgnome, and I would never disagree with his views on G.O.L.F.!

Kevin

I currently hit MP-62's with are a player's CB, but I'm getting more and more into hitting blades.

I started to think about it the other day and thought of the top 5 ballstrikers that I grew up playing with and each one of them grew up playing blades, usually some old Hogan blades. I bought some MacGregor Tourney 985's and the difference is quite noticeable. It's almost like having one of those PSP training aids, but being able to play a round of golf with one of them. I have no problems getting them airborne, but if you mis-hit the iron, I'll lose 2 clubs worth of distance.

Anyway, I agree in not trying to hit down with the driver. I'd at the very least try to get the attack angle at about -1* as that's where the average PGA Tour attack angle is at with the driver. If you want a piece of advice, I would try to work on being able to hit a 10.5* titanium driver off the deck. I know I can do it with mine and do it with relative ease.






3JACK

Hitting Down (and Out)
 

No matter what Club used -- Driver or Putter or somewhere in-between -- the Stroke is always executed Down Plane to Low Point (1-L #13). When Left Wrist Velocity Power (6-B-2-0) is employed, that also means to Full Extension (Left Wrist Uncocked per 2-P).

The only variable, then, is Ball Position (12-3 #2 and Chapter 14 / Second Programming Routine).

All Strokes must comply with the essential geometry of the Stroke (Masters Execution / 3-F-6 per 5-0). Or, incorporate a Compensation.

:golfcart2:

Now it feels like home again! :) :salut:

Thank You,
Kevin

Hmmm so even if you tee a ball forward of low point you must hit all the way Down and Out before the club eventually goes Up and In, post low point to hit the ball. The Down and Out bit being lost on most folks who simply try to hit Up..........and disrupt the clubhead orbit in the process. Im going to the dome today to try that out.

I'm anxious to hear what you discover O.B.!

Kevin

When I started to play decent as a junior, I teed the ball low, took it inside and up and smashed down on it, at times taking a divot. I could really drive it well for a 135 pound weakling. Then a well meaning playing partner insisted I needed to tee it higher and take it straight back. I recently read a great article about Sam Snead who used a 2 wood for a driver and hit down on the ball, often taking a divot. Modern drivers tend to discourage this motion due to the weighting and size. I think Kevin has identified a valid way to swing, assuming the club's design helps. If you have a sole weighted 460 cc driver, it might be tough go.

Great point Dodger. Equipment has changed so much during our lifetimes that the game has changed drastically! Remember when we thought a 300 drive was super human? Now its 400! :salut:

Kevin

Snead didn't take divots with a teed up driver. I've seen him hit too many teed up shots without ever taking a divot. He did hit the driver off the deck quite a bit and I don't think *trying* to take a divot with a fairway wood or even a driver off the deck is a bad way to go about it.

You can hit today's drivers off the deck if you're pretty precise. I have a Cleveland Hi-Bore XLS 10.5* with a low kick point that I can hit pretty well as long as it's not a downhill lie. I think it's one of things I've been proud about since I've gotten back into the game, being able to swing it well enough to stripe a modern day driver off the deck on a consistent basis.





3JACK

Wasn't Palmer famous for taking divots with his fairway woods?

Good ole God fearing "Hitter"! :) :salut:

Kevin

I cannot hit my Callaway FT-9 off the turf, totally phsychological. I had Powerbilt build me a driver in the early 1980's when I was in the business that had a shallow face, and 12degrees of loft. I could really bang on it. I think shaft length matters too, it is hard to get steep enough with a 45 plus inch shaft, particularly when you are an underplaner. I disagree with your Snead observation somewhat. His last instruction book, a little one ala Penick discusses the divot he took with a teed up driver as routine. I simply am going by what he said in the book. I didn't realize you watched the slammer play in the 50's, you look my age. Only joking Richie, I think your insights are great. Thanks Dodger

Was with a former tour pro last week who ended up building clubs in tour vans and continues his trade today. He showed me (outdoors verified on Trackman) how he could take a 9.5 degree ping driver and with a 104 mph swing carry the ball close to 270 yds (290 ttl) by hitting up (18 degree launch and low 2,000 spin) using average condition range balls. He was launching the ball really high although not always straight. It was fun to watch although I could not figure out how he was hitting it so high with such low spin. He was playing the ball inside his left foot.

I prefer my driver to have a trajectory with little enough spin to have a ballistic trajectory even with the wind in my face. I could probably get 10-15 yards carry with more loft but a more moderate trajectory works best for me regardless of wind direction.

Being a lefty from Norway I didn't find many drivers to test in the proshop. And for a while there good heads and good shafts were really cheap compared to ready-made drivers. So I basically e-shopped until I had something that worked. For a while there I had a huge andvantage when I had the modern high-launch/low-spin trajectory while everybody else were spinning the ball towards the moon....

I am currently using a Bangster OL head 9 degrees and Harrison FL 2.5 shaft with firm flex. Love the club except when it is raining. The club face is so smooth that I can still use it as a mirror, some 4 years after I started using it. And when the rain is pouring down and the club face is wet the club doesn't produce back spin. But apart from that it works great.

I have the ball as long forward as I can without compromising the stroke geometry. As long as you don't run out of righ arm and don't cheat with the alignments, you still strike down even if the club goes up - right?

300 Yards is still superhuman to me. It's reachable on the hard turf in Scotland links with benign wind conditions and a very good stroke but rarely else. I'm happy to be past 260.

And yes - I play blade-ish clubs. Mizuno MP 32. I was anxious to take them out on the course the first time because I do not always find the sweet spot. But they do deliver pretty well on off-center hits as well. The difference from my former 845 SS is that I can feel better where I hit the ball. And even more important: I can hit it hard and low when I want to. I think the sweet spot is overrated. As long as the stroke physics is good the result will be acceptable even though it feels like hitting with a plank. I will not hesitate going for a set of Mizuno muscle backs the next time. But I don't mind a large MOI as long as the COG isn't set to low and as long as the club looks good from fix. The last part is probably the most important to me and I HATE to look down on a huge offset.