Worst Golf Instruction/Advice/Tip
 

Perpetrated on you or the general public.

What in your opinion was the worst advice or tip or instruction that you received or that is just generally accepted in the golf world?

For me, it was the "impact is a return to address position" dogma. Turned me into an instant flipper requiring exquisite timing to be effective. I became overly aware of the clubhead and remained so until finding this forum.

I started playing golf in my early 20's in 1981 and from what I know now, was pretty much a natural "hitter" -- standard tee shot was a 3-wood off the deck...just hit down and to the right and it went. Sort of baseball on an inclined plane. Probably a pretty good RFFW. Then, I started reading golf magazines and the like and discovered that I'd been doing it "wrong."

I had always wondered if impact looked like a lower case "y" or an uppercase "Y." Since most at address look like "Y" and you were supposed to return to that (and with your hips not open to boot), well, we all know that that leads to. I like what Martin Hall said on his show about swings should be sequenced (hips, then shoulders, then arms/hands) and not synchronized (everything arriving at same location).

What was your "bad instruction" and what did it do to you?

Take the club back - low and slow

In general- The proffers offered in golf "periodicals".

Which include but not limited to:
"TIPS"
"equipment " reviews""

HB

low and slow
dont turn your hips to create x factor
use a hogan strength grip
swing under your backswing
your hooking it because you are over the top

Keep your head down.
That return to your address position idea got me for 30 years!

Low and slow and straight back from the ball.......Steering in other words. And its sister move Rock the Triangle with its frozen right elbow. Id say this set me back 20 years . 20 years Ill never get back , all thanks to Jimmy Ballard and his line of thinking as supported by the golf magazines of the day. I normally wouldnt name the culprit but......if it saves one golfer from my plight its worth it.

In modern times Id say the towel under the arm pits is a terrible drill. How TGM r types can embrace this is beyond me. They missed a big concept from Homer. Its pivot to hands on the way back and through the ball too. In Startdown it would be ok, when the left arm is pinned to the chest but thats about it. Its a recipe for the pivot to drag the hands in the direction its going. To say nothing of the loss of power. So other than geometry and physics its an ok drill. The arms must swing independent of the Pivot in Startup and post Startdown. See the glossaries definition of Pivot for some food for thought. See Force Vectors, 2-N-1 and see how the pivot and arms move in different directions and the clubhead orbit is resultant. Cant do this with a hanky under your arms.

Actually as I think about things the towel drill and "connection" might be not so distant relatives. Gentlemen, relax, free your arm to pivot connections at the shoulders and watch your shots soar long and true. For a good anti drill , put a towel under your arm pits and try to function normally around the house , maybe do the dishes (your wife will like this)........but please dont do this drill while driving your car.

I am right there with you...gave up the game for about 10 years because I was just too inconsistent. I remember Bobby Clampett and TGM from back in the day -- oh how I wish I'd bought the book!!!

While I did NOT buy Homer's book, I did unfortunately buy Jimmy's book. Between the "connection" issues and the installation of a darn near permanent sway in my swing I think Jimmy owes me a few years of my golfing life back!

A Snap Decision
 

Swing out to your target.

Not Fit To Be Tied
 

Several of my fav's have already been mentioned, but who can forget Five Lessons and the arms banded together with the elbow pockets up? Ugh. It gives me the "creeps" to even look at it!

Compare the illustrations below to clearly differentiate what he said to do with what he actually did.

:(

You can also consult my avatar (personal identifier on this post) for the correct configuration.

:golfcart2:

I wish I had had as clear a picture as Yoda's avatar to guide me. That image alone could have saved me God knows how many strokes over the years and made my ball striking what I have always believed it could be...and what it is on its way to becoming with all the help on here!

I regret mentioning Jimmy Ballard's name , that isnt right. I dont know the guy , he may have some fine insights on golf, what do I know anyways.......but the maintain the triangle theory on the backswing killed me, for years.

No bending right elbow, no right forearm magic. Jimmy Ballard, Jimmy Ballard......I feel very small right now. Ballard , Jimmy.
Great sales pitch though. Great. But a death elixir. Hogan did not do that.

I worked with Jimmy back in the day. Never once did I hear no bending of the elbow or was I told to sway. If anything he was the first teacher that told me how to use my right side and "trace" the outside rail (the plane line). Spring the shaft was what I heard. Still good today.

Jimmy could also fix somebody faster than just about anyone. I think he got a bad reputation because his followers bastardized his message just as many did to Homer's work.

I don't remember the book advising a sway necessarily. I may have just picked that up watching his star pupil, Curtis Strange (I am recalling that right I think).

Hey Jeff

Nice to hear from you. I do admit that its been a long while since I read his book ...... maybe I got that maintain the intact triangle on the backswing thing from somewhere else then? If so then I regret attributing that horrible methodology to Mr Ballard and stand corrected.

So he traced the target line with his right side and folded his right elbow? Man, why didnt I get that message back in the day?

Good luck with the coming season.

Here's another one from the old days...

The now so called "old" ball flight laws. Heck, I was just drawing these on a white board at work like a year ago. (I've been away from the game for like ten years...)

How long have we misdiagnosed swing problems based on those!

Left Elbow Control Versus Left Wrist Control
 

Thanks for this, Air.

I know what Jimmy Ballard is saying here. Leaving aside various references to the connection of the left arm, its role in the golf swing, and those actions causing its radius and arc to change -- :smile: -- the action he recommends inhibits getting laid off on the Backstroke or under-rolled through the Ball. These are Clubshaft and Clubface considerations. Just as important, demonstrated but not mentioned, is the Mechanical Advantage gained by the Overtaking Action (of the Flat Left Wrist by the Clubhead) through Impact. (Jimmy's obvious Sway [1:36-1:40] is not requisite to this Overtaking Action and should be avoided.) In a world desperate for Simplified Golf, this tip is a winner.

Unfortunately, for those seeking more precision -- that would be us \\:D/ -- there are no alignments to control that left elbow action. (Indeed, I'm sure Jimmy would say that the "left elbow down" is the alignment.) But what we're really talking about here is both Forearms fanning -- the Right Forearm fanning (about the elbow) in the Start Up and Backstroke and Left Forearm fanning (about the elbow) in the Release and Follow-Through.

The good news is that both Elbows have a control: the Left Wrist. Via its Wrist Action (7-18 ) and Hinge Action, (7-10) the Left Wrist controls the respective Elbow Motions while maintaining its mission-critical alignments related to the Inclined Plane. Which, of course, is boss.

In fact, Jimmy's tip is all about helping the golfer achieve the precision Turn and Roll of the Left Arm and Club (Primary Lever Assembly / 6-A-2) and its #3 Power Accumulator Angle (6-B-3-0) as established at Impact Fix (8-2) and regulated per 2-G. (Non-TGMers reading that last sentence should stop after the words "left arm and club".:scratch:) Jimmy's tip would be helpful to almost all handicap golfers (which is why he delivered it in the first place).

My only beef is that all this dumbing down -- Position Golf versus Alignment Golf -- is now expected in the golf teaching business, and precision has gone buh-bye. (This was not the case, by the way, when Robert T. Jones, Jr., aka Bobby Jones, was writing his scholarly, nationally-syndicated weekly newspaper columns in the 1930s). Especially with regards to the Hands. (Unless, of course, you want your left elbow to control your golf stroke.) The truth is that the Hands (specifically, in this instance, the Left Wrist and its complementary Right Wrist) control and execute these precision alignments, and the left and right elbows respond accordingly.

In Jimmy's prescription, the Hands . . . the Hands . . . are conspicuously absent.

Regarding his Ben Hogan reference, I've just finished reading former LPGA Tour player Kris Tschetter's wonderful new book, Mr. Hogan, The Man I Knew. (Buy it on Amazon at a significant discount here http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...ndition=used).

Here are three quotes that summarize how important Mr. Hogan viewed the Hands:

"Once again he focused on my hands. That should have come as no surprise. Mr. Hogan had a simple philosophy when it came to golf: The player's only contact with the ball comes through the club, and the only contact with the club comes through the hands. To him the hands are like tires touching a racetrack. The engine, transmission, steering, and aerodynamics don't mean a thing, if the only parts of the car touching the road are faulty. In golf, everything begins with the hands, and Mr. Hogan knew more about the effects of the grip on the swing than anyone who had ever played. According to Mr. Hogan, the slightest variation in any aspect of the hands, whether it was the position of the thumb or an increase in the pressure of one finger, could change the swing entirely."

"It seemed so strange to me. No one had ever focused so much on my hands."

"I still didn't understand everything he was trying to get me to do with my hands. In fact, as I stood there watching him walk away, only one word came to mind: Wow."

In the same chapter she spoke of the article Mr. Hogan said he would one day write:

"The left hand is the steering wheel and the right hand is the gas. Once you get your grip on there correctly, the left hand controls where the ball goes, and the right hand provides the power."

Ben Hogan never wrote his article, but Homer Kelley wrote his book, The Golfing Machine:

" . . . you will save yourself much anguish by using the Right Hand just for sensing and controlling acceleration and the Left Hand just for controlling alignments. Right Hand -- Clubhead. Left Hand -- Clubface." (1-F)

Rarely does a day go by that I do not thank God for Homer Kelley, his Golfing Machine, and his personal tutelage.

Today is another of those days.

:salut:

That is a really good post....

so since Homer got it all wrong :rolleyes: then I just suppose it makes Hogan all wrong.

Such bad company I guess.

Flip Side Story
 

Glad to hear that, Jeff, but . . .

At least in the mid-'70s -- you were less than ten years old at the time :smile: -- Jimmy Ballard taught a sway.

Big time.

(If you want to see it done in person, look at Air's Post #14 above at 1:36-1:40.)

How do I know?

Because, for one full day, that's what he and one of his assistants taught me -- indeed, insisted that I do -- at his teaching range in Pell City, Alabama. I was not a "reverse-pivot-er" and have tons of pre-Jimmy photos to prove it.

The mantra: Move the weight and head to the right, then "fire" the right arm. "Nobody keeps their head still", right? The swing has "two pivot points", right? Move to the right and turn on the right leg. Then, move to the left and turn on the left leg. Let the head go with the motion. :rolleyes:

All s-o-o-o logical and all so wrong. And all filtered down from three-time 1930s PGA Tour Money Winner Bill Mehlhorn to baseball great Sam Byrd and, finally, through Jimmy's own prism.

"Many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip."

I never heard a word about "tracing an outside rail" or "springing" the clubshaft. Of course, the Left Side Chorus of the 1970s Golf Digest Schools left the door wide open for Jimmy's liberating message to "fire the right side". Mac McLendon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_McLendon and Jim Colbert http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Colbert performed on Tour and the world came calling.

I was there.

At Jimmy's and his assistant's direction, I swayed my head off the ball and my weight laterally "into [my] right hip" on the backswing, and then I "fired" my right side, by the hour for six hours. I did all I could do to do exactly what they were asking me to do. I have never felt more out of control swinging a golf club.

At the lunch break, they took me into a little motel room at the complex. Over a sandwich and chips, they flashed some Hogan 1948 Power Golf slides on the wall. They all showed the "head back" and big back lean away from the target. (Thirty-five years later, I was to learn about parallax and how it can affect photographs).

"See?" said they.

"Yes." said I.

Then back into Hell's Kitchen.

I had arrived a halfway decent, low-handicap ball striker and had paid my $100+ bucks in 1970s-type money (regular gas was at 40 cents a gallon; do the math). I had no game: Club championship stuff (but in a top-flight club!) and a former USAF Tactical Air Command Championship team player. Still . . .

I left -- seven hours later -- shanking every shot. Unbeknownst to me, I had been transformed from a Centered Swinger to a Swaying Hitter (with none of the latter alignments supplied).

At day's end, I asked Jimmy simply, "Why am I shanking everything? And, why should I move to the right like this?'

To which he replied, in words indelibly imprinted on my memory:

"Don't pick it apart, son."

I had come to him, a now renowned "expert", and paid a lot of money (at least for a young insurance agent with a non-working wife and three kids) to "pick it apart".

But he couldn't do it. At least not to my satisfaction. Not then. Not now.

I'm okay with not being able to do some athletic something. (That said, I'm reasonably coordinated: I made straight A's in six quarters of Physical Education at Georgia Tech).

I'm not okay with not knowing what it is I can't do.

Insult to Injury Category:

Jimmy pointed to newly-minted LPGA Tour player Joan Joyce 'swaying and firing' beside us. Impressive! Joan Joyce, former softball fast-pitch champion, the fastest in the world. A magnificent, gifted athlete. She pitched 150 no-hit, no-run games and 50 perfect games.Further, her career batting average is .324. Somewhere along the way, she was inducted into the Connecticut's Women's Basketball Hall of Fame. :shock:

She never made it in pro golf.

But later, Hal Sutton and Curtis Strange did.

Fortunately, my continued journey led me to Homer Kelley.

Until tonight, courtesy of Google http://www.fausports.com/sports/w-go...ce_joan00.html, I had no idea what happened to Joan.

:salut:

Small world
 

In the article on Joan Joyce there is mention of Cecilie Lundgreen - whom I personally know, as we both belong to the same local golf club where I live here in Norway.

Just Flat Out Wrong
 

The advice to Flatten the Right Wrist is the worst instruction that could be given.

I was also taught the Ballard sway. Loading the right side and then firing it. Just as described above. My club pro played on the tour for 7 years and went to jimmy ballard for help. Ruined him. Became my club pro and then ruined many of the members including me. 7 years going down the wrong track. As Clampett said "I shouldn't have listened to other voices.

Giggity! :) :salut:

Sorry, loving Family Man right now. :laughing9

Kevin

Rabbit ears, man, I can relate! I've followed some very bumpy roads, learning a lot of different stuff, it's all right HERE in front of us. I wish I had known Lynn 30 years ago, and wish I had closed my ears to others as soon as I finally met him.

Pivot, Homer maybe didn't have enough there to make everybody happy, but Lynn found and shared MacDonald and Boomer to us to take care of the rest. IMHO, the MacDonald drills, at first glance look very silly, but in reality, they are very powerful, and beautiful in it's simplicity. I can't believe how much more confident and effective I have become as a teacher trying to use YODA's model to the best of my ability and understanding...

Kevin

Know how meets personal abilities
 

Kevin, if TGM is the Coolaid mix, you are the pitcher of ice and water...

If TGM is the pitcher of brewed tea bags, you are the sun....


A BIG Fan....

That would make LBG the manufacturing company of cold lemonade and Yoda as president.

....I had a moment so I'd thought I'd chime in.

JerryG-chief of HR

Daryl.....Chief Research scientist

OB Left....VP of something great

Bambam and everyone else Vp's of Science and Tech...


Anyway.... I would rather be a door keeper in the kingdom...than a prince of Hades.


ICT

LOL

It's even better than Kool-Aid. It's got carbonation and all the good stuff we like, kind of like a Transfusion... Grape Juice and Ginger Ale. Mmmmmm.. Add Rum if you want a little more kick... :)

Kevin

Not looking to bash Ballard, but where has he been all these years? He has come back from what I can tell based on Rocco's success and maybe the V-harness. I just assumed he had retired since some time in the 90's.

I'm guessing the golf instruction biz -- esp. the "name" variety -- is quite up and down based on success of your pro(s). Or maybe you get busy translating that notoriety into schools and institutes? Leadbetter seems to have faded a bit. Wonder if Haney will recede some. Rick Smith? Many more I'm sure.

Anyway, I was a big fan of Ballard's years ago and hadn't heard of him for a very long time.

Good results with Jimmy Ballard
 

I have read this thread with some interest since my experience with Jimmy is quite different. Don't get me wrong, I love Homer's book but I found my time with Jimmy (in the 90s) to be very beneficial. He still teaches connection and I found the idea of coiling into my right leg astonishing since I never had done it in 20 plus years of golf.

Since that time, I now play to a 5 handicap and still coil into my right leg (do not go over the wall and sway).

You have to take some of the other ideas (triangle, fire the right side, and head position) with a grain of salt.

I think he had some genuine interest in me as a student and while I don't subscribe to all of his theories, I found some of it to be quite effective....for me.


My two cents.

Kevin

PS: I have Alignment Golf and continue to try to knock down my handicap. Of course, playing once every two months doesn't help.

k

Navel seeking elbow maximum participation pattern=instantaneous death . . . . over the top but from the inside.

Hey, that's my favorite "Pattern". :laughing9

Leading to what type of shot shape(s)?

I was on the range. We were a group training together. I was hitting a wedge without any distance control, and a lot shorter than I would have done with proper impact aligmnent. In hindsight I had a glancing blow and massive compression leakage. But I was on plane and I was hitting it straight towards the target. Really frustrating and guaranteed to not work on the course even if I took two clubs extra. When the pro came to me he was totally satisfied with my ball striking even though I expressed my own dissatisfaction. That's the worst "advice" I've ever received.

First.....probably not last.
 

First post for a 3 month lurker :)

BALL FLIGHT (F)LAWS would be my vote. I always wondered how I hit that 30 yard hook 7 iron (that started left of target) with the divot pointing right. Now I can actually diagnose flaws from my ball flight. :golf:

A Lurker No More
 

Welcome aboard, faux_maestro, and thanks for this first post. Keep'em comin'!

:salut:

Great to see you here faux_maestro !

I have seen faux_maestro on another site, very knowledgable and a lover of Mr. Kelley's work. I pay attention when faux_maestro posts!!! :salut: :salut: :salut:

Kevin

Thanks YODA, I'm loving your site. The information and FREE videos are amazing. I'll be picking up ALIGNMENT GOLF as soon as I can aford it (grad. school is expensive :crybaby: ).

Kevin, you are too kind. I'm just starting this journey and barely know enough to keep up with the simple stuff. By the way, after much confusion/consideration I have decided I am a swinger after all. Hope we can still be friends :laughing9

Rob

LOL - I may be moving that direction with my total motion as well...

For me it's all in the release in total motion. Working in basic and aquired motion using a hitting feel I've noticed this was similar to what I did in high school/ college for less than full wedges and around the green. Amazing what you stumble upon when you practice a lot but then forget because you don't really know what you are doing :laughing9

Sorry for the threadjack. There are so many things I could add to this topic.....I had every golf digest and golf magazine from about 1989-2001.