Wrist action grip choices

[Bagger Lance]

And the last 400.....
1000 seems like a nice number to stop on- enjoy boys! I'll be holed up working in the lab on some top secret experimental forumulas- look for me in 10 years.

For post #1000 MikeO got a special treat. Rather than a gold watch we gave him an LBG Chinese Finger Cuff.
Should keep him occupied and harmless for the next 10 years.

[Augusta Golf]

I'm hoping that by covering all these issues and questions - it may set the stage for someone to provide the most information for me to learn and grow on this subject matter

You've grown enough as it is, step away from the corn bread, hands where I can see em.

[EdZ]

I would like to know the advantages/disadvantages of wrist action choices.

I normally use a 10-2-B wrist action grip - Strong single action. As a swinger I therefore have to pronate my left forearm during the takeaway swivel action, and then supinate during the release swivel action.

It would seem that the need would be less with a 10-2-D - Strong Double action grip, where the left wrist cock is in the plane of the right wrist bend. Is that true? Do you use this grip and find it advantageous? What are the disadvantages of this grip choice?

Does anyone think that another grip choice is better? Why?

Jeff.

Jeff - a very good question, although the thread took an alternate route (perhaps we can get back on topic)

I would suggest that what you think is 10-2-B is perhaps more towards 10-2-A, and that this can require the type of turn/roll you mention.

Per 10-2-B the left thumb and #3 PP are on the 'aft' side of the shaft, for "on plane" impact support. That is a more turned position that the standard training grip you see on many aids would put you in.

See the photo of Homer that Mike O has in in signature, or in the gallery.

To find this position for your left hand, it really is exactly how your left hand hangs naturally at your side. For some that is more turned than for others, but in my case it is at about 45 degrees, not at vertical, or fully turned, as in 10-2-D.

From that position, hanging naturally at your side, lift the left arm straight up to shoulder high. Seeing the left shoulder hinge pin just like a door, and not turning or rolling your hand at all, move your arm back and forth on the horizontal plane.

That is your horizontal hinge motion, on the horizontal plane.

On the angled plane of a swing, that will still have a feel of turn and roll, but you will find it much easier to keep your Rhythm, and square up at impact.

As to the advantages or disadvantages to 10-2-D, it is a very helpful way to learn clubhead control, and most beginners would benefit from at least trying it to learn to lean the shaft forward at impact and hit downplane. It does have somewhat of a power loss IMO over 10-2-B, because you are removing the advantages of accumulator #3 (turn and roll). It is also best used for a fade.

[Jeff]

EdZ

Thanks for commenting.

Very interesting post.

I used to have a 10-2-B grip that was more like 10-2-A, but I have recently adopted your suggestion of ensuring that the left thumb is on the aft side of the club.

I do agree that a 10-2-B grip allows the left hand to roll-over naturally into a horizontal hinging action post-impact. I presume that this natural roll-over action is more difficult with a 10-2-D grip, which would predispose to angled/vertical hinging and a fade.

I never though about the other potential advantage of a 10-2-B grip - that the natural roll over action allows for a better use of PA#3 transfer power. That's a good point.

Considering all these advantages to a 10-2-B grip, wouldn't it be the "best" grip choice for most golfers? Are there any major disadvantages?

What about hitters - is there a "best" grip choice for hitters?

Jeff

[EdZ]

EdZ

.......

I never though about the other potential advantage of a 10-2-B grip - that the natural roll over action allows for a better use of PA#3 transfer power. That's a good point.

Considering all these advantages to a 10-2-B grip, wouldn't it be the "best" grip choice for most golfers? Are there any major disadvantages?

What about hitters - is there a "best" grip choice for hitters?

Jeff

The use of accumulator #3 is really based on the clubs design, with a 10-2-A grip, pitch elbow, CF, and a true snap release, there is a lot more power (speed at least, and mass if lag pressure is maintained) - ala Hogan.

That said, 10-2-A, in all but ideal alignments and rhythm, requires you to 'do' something to square up, which most folks don't (hence why they slice given the 'training' grip).

10-2-B still requires that hinge action, the closing door, to ensure a square face, less power than A, but more than D. the happy medium. Its limitation is that most people steer, so the door still never closes.

10-2-D takes care of squaring up, but at a power loss, and potential direction loss for swingers. The best choice for learning to hit, because you can simply thrust the right arm paddle wheel at the aiming point with a bent right wrist. Since hitters don't use #3.

So with A - better to swing
with B - you can do either
and with D - hitting is a safer bet for control

[Jeff]

Ed,

Excellent post!

Thank you for a great learning experience.

Jeff.

[okie]

World class summary, Edz! Does anybody have any idea how Duval and Couples, Daly (I meekly submit they use more of a 10-2-D) overcome the power reduction that 10-2-D represents for most, due to no transfer power. I use a 10-2-B, but all the long hitters I know have a turned left hand!
Again, fantastic summary!

[DOCW3]

Is the left wrist in 10-2-B more turned than 10-2-A or just the left thumb?
Ref: 10-2-A @ V/V/T and 10-2-B @ V/V/A.

Thanks

DRW

Jeff - a very good question, although the thread took an alternate route (perhaps we can get back on topic)

I would suggest that what you think is 10-2-B is perhaps more towards 10-2-A, and that this can require the type of turn/roll you mention.

Per 10-2-B the left thumb and #3 PP are on the 'aft' side of the shaft, for "on plane" impact support. That is a more turned position that the standard training grip you see on many aids would put you in.

See the photo of Homer that Mike O has in in signature, or in the gallery.

To find this position for your left hand, it really is exactly how your left hand hangs naturally at your side. For some that is more turned than for others, but in my case it is at about 45 degrees, not at vertical, or fully turned, as in 10-2-D.

From that position, hanging naturally at your side, lift the left arm straight up to shoulder high. Seeing the left shoulder hinge pin just like a door, and not turning or rolling your hand at all, move your arm back and forth on the horizontal plane.

That is your horizontal hinge motion, on the horizontal plane.

On the angled plane of a swing, that will still have a feel of turn and roll, but you will find it much easier to keep your Rhythm, and square up at impact.

As to the advantages or disadvantages to 10-2-D, it is a very helpful way to learn clubhead control, and most beginners would benefit from at least trying it to learn to lean the shaft forward at impact and hit downplane. It does have somewhat of a power loss IMO over 10-2-B, because you are removing the advantages of accumulator #3 (turn and roll). It is also best used for a fade.

[EdZ]

Is the left wrist in 10-2-B more turned than 10-2-A or just the left thumb?
Ref: 10-2-A @ V/V/T and 10-2-B @ V/V/A.

Thanks

DRW

That is an excellent question, one that I am curious to know the answer to myself - how Homer viewed the hand vs wrist vs thumb positions relative to his grip definitions. As I read it, the thumb position is the key in his words.

That said, I think the relationship of the plane of the wrist cock may be better understood relative to the left arm flying wedge, and not the left wrist bones.

That allows for what appears to be a 'turned' left wrist, but still an 'in line' left arm flying wedge, based on an individuals anatomy.

[3Putt]

That said, I think the relationship of the plane of the wrist cock may be better understood relative to the left arm flying wedge, and not the left wrist bones.

That allows for what appears to be a 'turned' left wrist, but still an 'in line' left arm flying wedge, based on an individuals anatomy.

I like the above comment from EdZ.

It is important to remember from 4-D-1 that when referring to Flat Left Wrist during impact, Flat Left Wrist refers to 10-2-B grip type. So if your personal grip type has the left wrist turned more than what is depicted by 10-2-B, then your visual check for proper impact alignment, ie flat left wrist, must be reflect this.

I seem to have in mind that "geometically flat" refers to this condition ( being 'in line' with the left arm flying wedge), though I cannot locate the book reference right now.

Please keep in mind this is only the interpretation of 3Putt.....so read at your own risk. I would like to hear an opinion from someone if I am on the right track or off base.

Thanks.
3Putt