hi brian could you please post a brief description of the way you are trying to highlight, i must have missed it. i myself prefer a pivot where i turn more around my spine like snead which for me means standard knee action
Last edited by bantamben1 : 12-27-2005 at 03:33 AM.
Lynn, I would like to state my case in reverse—if that's ok.
I FIRMLY believe that the Imperatives should dictate the components.
And, in the real world of teaching, choosing a 'pivot center'—the head or the base of the neck—is a component of sorts, a choice that the teacher needs to make in an area that has to be done, but can be done differently.
If I can get a student to COMPRESS the ball with lag pressure, 'draw' a straight Plane Line, & control the clubface with Hinge Action—and do it with a perfectly still head—then I do it.
But, from an athletic function standpoint, and from a pure performance standpoint, the base of the neck PIVOT CENTER works more of the time and is employed more of the time by world-class players over the years, in my opinion.
Also in my opinion, the IDEA that the head PERFECTLY between the feet and VERY STILL during the swing, is an IDEA that would hurt more people than it would help.
But, like Big Don Villavaso says "As sure as Gawd made little green apples," you could teach ALL of your students to have a head that is PERFECTLY between the feet and DEAD STILL during the swing, and be a very, very successful teacher.
I just believe—in my limited experience—that it is an OPTION, just like a Shoulder Turn Takeaway is an option, and an option that can help the right student at the right time.
I am VERY SORRY that Ted Fort had a tough time with the idea. As well as having trouble with a double shift, swinging, etc.
Ted, I think your swing is a good one, but I have NO DOUBT that I—as well as many others—could have taught you to have a through-the-neck pivot center and made you into a very good player, like you are.
When I started teaching David Toms, he had a dead still head, almost no hip turn, and sometimes never got the club on the Turned Shoulder Plane. So I "fixed" him.
Looking back, maybe I should have left his head still.
Of course, if you had a time machine, would you risk his career and life to find out if I was wrong or right?
Last edited by brianmanzella : 12-27-2005 at 10:27 AM.
I think what is missing is that the head is round and takes more space then a straight line. It rotates in its space like Mac. I only see Toms with a major shift to the right. Where you draw that line creates the debate.
Top two pictures, something is out of whack. The backgrounds which should be static are not the same. I think the camera was moved between shots or something. The camera in one is higher than the other, and also closer.
Again there is a difference between frames regarding the background and your red line is definitely not in the same place if you use the background as a reference.
The Tom's pictures I think really give the wrong impression as well. Using the tree braches to the left at the top and his head, it hasn't move near what your lines indicate. Not saying it doesn't move a bit, but those lines make me think he is about to fall over and I doubt seriously that would be a product of your instruction.
Also the Snead pictures have questions regarding the background including the position of the ball to feet. Something is just not the same about both.
Interesting concept that the stationary head or neck would be considered a psuedo component/variation.
Realizing that the First essential is a Stationary Head, though 2-H does state it is recommended not mandatory. But when reading 1-L-1 and 1-L-2 it seems that the head is indicated and that it can move (turn) by the action of the pivot but not on its own.
So what in the Pivot would require the head to move? Wouldn't the pivot only require a turning? How can you move the head without disrupting the top of the spine unless you bend at the neck to lay the head down on the shoulder?
MARTEE:
"Top two pictures, something is out of whack. The backgrounds which should be static are not the same. I...The camera in one is higher than the other, and also closer."
MANZELLA: The picture are not in a 'sequence,' so what?
The ball position is almost exact, so the angle is the same for reference sake. And at the top of THIS swing, Hogan's head is NOT PRECISELY IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS FEET!
MARTEE:
"Again there is a difference between frames regarding the background and your red line is definitely not in the same place if you use the background as a reference."
MANZELLA: Nope. It is not in a squence (see above). But the two picture were lined up PERFECTLY in Photoshop and the ball and the red line are EXACTLY THE SAME!!!
Hogan, simply turned around his spine on this day.
MARTEE:
The Tom's pictures...blah, blah, blah....
MANZELLA: Very shortly, on my new site, Mike Finney will post his entire swing video collection.
Trust me, Mike numbers are dead on.
But, like I said....go ahead and put your head precisely between your feet and keep it there.
Linear Mode
