Chicken wing? Is the clubshaft pointing at the plane? Is the face cutting plane vs. laying on it?
Hogan is not laying the face on the plane in the photo in question several posts back. Just saying it looks like a hold off or angled hinge to me. Like he was hitting a specific type of shot as opposed to his normal garden variety release...
Its a great photo , but not something you wanna do all the time for every shot, I don't think.
Personally, I like Horizontal Hinging , when done correctly , meaning not over rolled like some have prescribed . Uh, what the heck is a "full roll" supposed to mean for instance?
As an aside there are no short cuts to understanding Hinge Action. You have to get into the three basic planes , the feel of the roll or the look of the face alone can lead you astray , quickly . Take grip rotation for instance .... it ruins the look of the face for those that use the face as reference.
Bucket I love you mang , when you talk about flashing faces etc are you talking about over rolling? You know who style full-roll-a-zontal? You aren't anti properly executed Horizontal are you? Na.. forget I asked.
Hogan is not laying the face on the plane in the photo in question several posts back. Just saying it looks like a hold off or angled hinge to me. Like he was hitting a specific type of shot as opposed to his normal garden variety release...
Its a great photo , but not something you wanna do all the time for every shot, I don't think.
Personally, I like Horizontal Hinging , when done correctly , meaning not over rolled like some have prescribed . Uh, what the heck is a "full roll" supposed to mean for instance?
As an aside there are no short cuts to understanding Hinge Action. You have to get into the three basic planes , the feel of the roll or the look of the face alone can lead you astray , quickly . Take grip rotation for instance .... it ruins the look of the face for those that use the face as reference.
Bucket I love you mang , when you talk about flashing faces etc are you talking about over rolling? You know who style full-roll-a-zontal? You aren't anti properly executed Horizontal are you? Na.. forget I asked.
The finish swivel as taught by Yoda was HUGE for my understanding and teaching. I tend to incorrectly lump finish swivel with HH. Do you guys incorporate the finish swivel when angled hinging, or do you use that "hold off" look in your finish?
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Sometimes this process can seem like , sometimes it seems that no matter what you do you just can't change your motion. your body is a stubborn machine that fears change and no matter how logical your approach, it fights it every step. You just don't know what part of the process you'll get hung up on, some things come easy and others take the jaws of life to break free. For me it's my right arm, it doesn't wanna straighten in the downswing it wants to hold it's bend meanwhile the left wrist is flying out early. The other day talking with my teacher i realized how my body truly perceived the golf swing despite all the information i have, my body still wanted to do its own thing. I have been trying a Million things to get it to straighten and i truly got discouraged to the point of almost giving up. It seems I could never get my right forearm on plane at release, it seemed i could never get my right arm to straighten without uncocking the left wrist. It needed time to incubate in my head but i think the egg has finally started to chip open. this is HUGE for me, granted i still have a TON of other things to improve and this is just practicing with a foam ball in the apartment (full speed swing though) but this was something that was so hard for me to change even without a ball.
It seems I could never get my right forearm on plane at release, it seemed i could never get my right arm to straighten without uncocking the left wrist.
I don't think the Right Arm and therefore the right elbow, is on the Inclined Plane till around Impact. It should be under the Inclined Plane at the Release Point no?
As for a straightening right arm and the left wrist then uncorking isn't that way its supposed to be? The Magic of the Right Forearm. The right arm lifts and lowers , cocks and uncorks the left wrist etc. Maybe Im miss reading your post.
Weird , Im working on just the opposite with my right arm , trying to keep it bent longer. Actually come to think of it, I know the perfect way to straighten your right arm early ..... hold your Right Shoulder back in Startdown. If the Right Shoulder stalls and the hands keep moving down plane ...... the right elbow must be straightening. Thats how I do it. Also known as a pivot stall.
just trying to get more in the ball park ob not necessarily exactly on it but where i was, my right arm was way tooo bent at release and my downstroke sequence tended to throw the wrist cock out before releasing 4 and passive 1(right arm straightening).
regarding the right elbow and release...
from 7-20
"so with the downstroke waggles, verify-- through the hands only--that the right elbow will be on plane before triggering to assure accurate tracing for the follow through. Especially with Delayed Release this will rotate the left hand in a swiveling action as required for rhythm"
and if your elbow is on plane and the hands are on plane, well your forearm is too.
the hitter uses simultaneous release, the swinger uses sequenced release. The swinger can release 4 and 1 without releasing 2 via the mandatory flexible wrists and its rope pulling, arrow pulling longitudinal acceleration.
the right arm cocks the left wrist in the backstroke for the swinger but it need not uncock the left wrist as it straightens in the downstroke. remember regarding the left wrist and right wrist in a delayed release procedure...trigger delay alters little geometrically but magnifies the physics. variations in trigger delay are possible only because the cocked left wrist allows the right elbow to straighten faster than the left arm would otherwise allow. the greater the delay, the more rapid the paddlewheel action and the more swivel-like it becomes without increasing the actual endless belt speed of the left hand
combine that with pivot and it doesn't take much right arm bend down there because the pivot moves it forward in space without it moving forward or extending independently, for me i'm almost feeling as if both arms get straight well before impact, this of course is a tricky thing because it need be by the left arm pulling the right arm straight and not the right arm straightening actively and without muscular effort and tension
check out charles howell III he really gets that sucker on plane down there and really straightens the right arm without uncocking the left wrist, davis love pretty good too but of course disregard the tour players cuz they're doing a lot of stuff!
tension is the enemy in all of this and I'm aware of it now more than ever, tension turns my swinging action into a wannabe hitting/swinging/steering/throwaway tension filled disaster
btw ur advice is the same as one of the tips he gave me
what i have to remember too is that maximum trigger delay noticeably restricts maximum handspeed, in an attempt to straighten the right arm without uncocking the left wrist i inadvertantly try to get it straight faster and faster of course this is counter-intuitive as it makes the left wrist fly out sooner as it must.
This is a great post. I know some guys who really work the 4,1 but passive till almost straight then 2, 3. They've branched off a bit theoretically in a lot of what they do. Thats ok by me, what ever works. But I see you as having a pretty classic motion ... did you change instructors? Kidding!
Let me think on this stuff for a bit.
In the mean time here's my theoretical sticking point re getting the right arm on plane for any extended period of time (or near to it). Assuming the Right Arm Flying Wedge can stay intact throughout the swing and I think it can , should. In Startup assuming some amount of Right Wrist Bend any rotation of the shaft (which stays on plane lets say , leaving out the LCOG for simplicity) would rotate the Right Forearm under plane. The Right Forearm or an extension there of would thus point above the plane line. This would hold for any angled , bent thing , stick , branch whatever. I know Homer talks about Tracing with the right forearm but how can that be? Unless of course there was no rotating of the shaft and therefor face..........but wouldn't that be Steering?
So in short I see tracing with the #3pp , I see the shaft staying on plane and rotating but not with the Right Arm staying on plane assuming any Right Wrist bend.
from the start down the arrow is drawn out of the quiver feather end first, the left arm pulling the cocked left wrist down the plane pulling the right arm straight onto the plane,at this point in the swing the right forearm is on plane with a slight bend as at impact, utilizing the endless belt the left wrist finally in a swivel-like action uncocks and rolls instantly while the right arm has hardly changed anything until the roll of the #3 accumulator and pivot pulls the right arm straight to the follow through. think left arm left side pulling in a swinging action the right arm is passive, forget the right arm in a left arm swing downstroke, it is being pulled. the point at which you uncock and roll that right arm is just making its fanning, pitching motion following the left hand, being pulled straight Attachment 2828
, sometimes it seems that no matter what you do you just can't change your motion. your body is a stubborn machine that fears change and no matter how logical your approach, it fights it every step. You just don't know what part of the process you'll get hung up on, some things come easy and others take the jaws of life to break free. For me it's my right arm, it doesn't wanna straighten in the downswing it wants to hold it's bend meanwhile the left wrist is flying out early. The other day talking with my teacher i realized how my body truly perceived the golf swing despite all the information i have, my body still wanted to do its own thing. I have been trying a Million things to get it to straighten and i truly got discouraged to the point of almost giving up. It seems I could never get my right forearm on plane at release, it seemed i could never get my right arm to straighten without uncocking the left wrist. It needed time to incubate in my head but i think the egg has finally started to chip open. this is HUGE for me, granted i still have a TON of other things to improve and this is just practicing with a foam ball in the apartment (full speed swing though) but this was something that was so hard for me to change even without a ball.
but im not giving up 
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