The Topic of the Video was "Hitting the Ball Straight using a Driver requires a different Swing than when using an Iron".
We (a few) know that Striking the Ball with an Angular Force so that the Ball responds as though it were struck by a Linear Force, requires the Clubface to be Square to the Angle of Approach at Contact (create the Line of Compression) and rotate that Line of Compression to become square to the Target at Separation. Without equal pressure on the Horizontal Plane (the Ball and Clubface rotate around the Impact Point), the Ball will develop Side Spin.
In a nutshell. If the Clubhead is traveling 5 degrees inside-out and the Impact Interval is 1/4" (5 iron), how do you Rotate 5 degrees in that short of a distance?
If you Strike the Ball with a Clubface Square to the Target and at separation it remained square to the Target, then How do you manage equal lateral pressure on the Ball if the Clubhead is traveling as little as 1 degree from inside-down and out?
It really comes down to how the numbers are interpreted. I talk with professionals who use TrackMan and say it confirms the work of Homer Kelley. For those who go the other direction, it can have a lot to do with marketing and justifying the purchase. If I spend $25,000 on a calculator, I'm going to want it to change the way I teach, and try to further the idea that it's not possible to be a good teacher without it. I'm not rich enough to buy one, and don't think I'm full of enough BS to sell it as the only way. Used properly, it can be a great addition to the tool box.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
When he's talking about different clubs and angles - it seem to boil down to different set ups - not so much different swings - from a wedge to the driver?
Homer had a personal preference for Grip Rotation over Plane Line Rotation I believe too. Manipulated Hands Swinging or Hitting.
Can I ask for an opinion on the geometry of the straight shot presented above?
K, so and correct me if I have this wrong, assuming a short iron say, ball back of low point, club face square to the Arc of Approach (therefor pointing right of target, no divergence in path and face). To hit the straight shot at the target you then rotate the plane line to the left accordingly.
I can see this as producing a straight ball, no problem. But wouldn't this be a higher flying , shorter shot given the added loft of the opened club face? I see it as a great way to get over a tree say. Maybe I have things wrong. If I don't , why doesn't this show up in the data ?
Me I just Rotate the Clubface back to square per (dang is it 7-3) and expect a slight draw if anything. But there isn't much of one due to the steeper plane angles associated with short irons. Less divergence , less Out , more Down . I use that logic on the other side of low point sometimes for the driver , but take the draw (ish) and the true loft , compression every time with short irons. Now in bunkers I do that just sometimes......if I want to avoid a hop to the right you get with the open plane cut shot.
That and the HOgan thing trouble me. I dunno.
Thanks Pro.
Hey OB,
Now this is just me talking first of all. Im not tryng to debunk any theories by any means, just sharing what Ive seen and experienced.......but, while an open face would hit it higher if that were the only parameters, I would hope we don't have the ball so far back that a face is very open to the target at impact (unless we're trying to hit a high draw which would also be a less than stock shot.) Even with that though, angle of attack is going to determine trajectory way more than a face being 1 or 2 degrees open to a target. So, yes i would agree that most (not all) better players that get ball back, will end up swinging shallow and to the right eventually. The only thing I would say to the video is that you don't have to move the "whole" hoola hoop.
On your method, Im curious, have you taken video (DTL) of the a stock shot versus the one when you close face at address and compared? Every single time I have or taken video of a good player do this they actually change plane lines, particularly exits relative to target line.
Air, not really that different. They assume playing the driver more forward. Impact further forward on the inclined plane. The feeling is the further back on the plane you strike the ball, the more inside out the path of the clubhead. Makes sense geometrically?
I know Yoda has worked with TrackMan and would love to hear his thoughts along with Mr. Tillery's, I would guess they are on the same page???
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
ALIGNMENT G.O.L.F.
Last edited by KevCarter : 01-17-2012 at 11:14 AM.
Air, not really that different. They assume playing the driver more forward. Impact further forward on the inclined plane. The feeling is the further back on the plane you strike the ball, the more inside out the path of the clubhead. Makes sense geometrically?
I know Yoda has worked with TrackMan and would love to hear his thoughts along with Mr. Tillery's, I would guess they are on the same page???
He also made a reference to Hogan who perfered an open stance on the shorter shots and somewhat closed stance with the driver.
"Let me ask you a question. Do you really think that it's easier to learn to swing 1 degree upright for your Wedges and 2 degrees flatter for your 5 iron or Play your wedges 4.45398" back and your 5 iron 2.87456" back? How would you handle a downhill or side hill lie? Have you ever used Trackman while in a Bunker?"
I hope my 5 iron swings more than 2 degrees flatter than my wedge....but I teach one ball position concerning feet. Changes relative to lowpoint via width. Besides, is the 2.87456 from the front, middle, or back of the ball?
Sidehill/downhill?...same things, just changes attack angles and therefore path. Kind of handcuffed on trajectory.
Greenside bunkers? No, I havent. But things are a little more straight forward from 5 yards.
"In a nutshell. If the Clubhead is traveling 5 degrees inside-out and the Impact Interval is 1/4" (5 iron), how do you Rotate 5 degrees in that short of a distance?"
That rotating the plane line 5 degrees deal is something you will want to do before the clubhead is touching the ball. But why are we swinging 5 degrees inside out for straight ball flight?
"If you Strike the Ball with a Clubface Square to the Target and at separation it remained square to the Target, then How do you manage equal lateral pressure on the Ball if the Clubhead is traveling as little as 1 degree from inside-down and out?"
How do you make ball go straight if face is at target and path is down and to the right?....... I believe that's what this guy is trying to answer in the video.
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