[O.B.Left]

Im with you dkerby.

Their drill sounds very Pivot to Hands ish to me. Do they describe the club across the chest as moving at 90 degrees to the spine angle, but with a forward waist bend? I used to think along these lines. The answer is multi faceted I believe, touching on some of Homers greatest stuff Id say.

I believe that Yoda's "flat" right shoulder move in the takeaway is really only as flat as is possible for the individual, given a steady pivot center, as opposed to literally level to the ground thing. It's an attempt to the get the Right Shoulder back onto the (zero shift) Inclined Plane. A flat (ish) turn of the Right Shoulder will locate this Inclined Plane with less travel if you imagine it from a "down the line" perspective. In reality Yoda's procedure isnt really very flat in terms of the shoulder turn or plane angle. It doesnt look unusual at all to my eye.

If you cant locate the Inclined Plane with the Right Shoulder the plane angle rises to it , so to speak. Assuming a TSP. But incrementally , to the least amount of angle shift necessary. Minimizing the shift. Which is in contrast to the shift resulting from a turn of the Right Shoulder at 90 degrees to the Spine type deal. Typically a much bigger shift in terms of degrees.

Some of the guys reco'ing the steep shoulder turns have their arms tied to their bodies. In my opinion , given Homer's independent Arm and Pivot/Shoulder motion (something we do during normal human movement all the time) the Hands go where they must go and the Shoulders accommodate naturally, perfectly and usually by traveling a unique path of their own. With the Arms tied to the Pivot in some manner , hankies say or imaginary ones, the Shoulders and the Arms need to work as unit........ point at the plane line together at Top perhaps? In the extreme. But why bother with such an awkward procedure? You dont point your shoulders at the dish on the top shelf in your kitchen .....you just send your hand towards its target and the pivot/shoulders do their own thing. Hands to Pivot not Pivot to Hands.

The other thing is that there is a good deal of play in the Shoulders. In fact the spine isnt really a rigid straight line either, its "s" shaped and articulates. It is not a rigid "T" arrangement, far from it.

I know this is highly contentious stuff ........ I used to think along their lines myself. But these days I just clear my Right HIp and Right Forearm Takeaway (Fanning and Bending). No thought to turning my Shoulders really. That and a little EA is all there is to my my Startup these days. It feels like two moves and the rest is automated. Im not going back to the Shoulder Turn Takeaway any time soon.

In Startdown I do drive my Right Shoulder at the Plane Line ...........and with it, the similarly planed Hands... meaning from a TSP angle at Top. As required by the ground/up Downswing Acceleration Sequence. Is this Pivot to Hands? Id say no! The Hands are still directing while catching a brief free ride from the Right Shoulder down the Plane.

Uh, its a big topic. I guess I could have just said ........"you can approach level without losing your forward tilt" . But I sense there is much more at hand than merely that.