In fact, the Swinger's massive rotor (Pivot) needs to slow down -- not acclerating or staying at constant speed -- for Momentum Transfer to take place from the Body to the Arms and Hands. This is how the Left Arm gets blasted off the left side of one's chest, so Centrifugal Force can be 'set up' to work its magic. If there was constant acceleration or even constant speed of the Pivot, the Swinger would never be letting Centrifugal Force take over the Rhythm of the Downstroke and there would not be a slowing, overtaking process happening joint by joint that is necessary for Momentum Transfer.
All this is quite counter-intuitive because we think how it is possible for something to slow down to speed something else up. Maybe this is the science behind one of the cliches we often here from our friends and golf magazines: "swing easy if you want to hit it further".
I agree Yoda, but can you clarify by what you mean if Pivot Lag were to be Released?
I agree that the "massive rotor" slows down in order for the "Momentum Transfer to take place from the Body to the Arms and Hands. But, beware not to do it intentionally, which might cause early release of the "lag".
The "lag" (from the pivot to the clubhead) should be intentionally sustained as long as possible to insure the existance of "thrust" through impact for resising the "impact deceleration".
The "lag" eventually will be "thrownaway" (sometime during the swing), no matter how hard/long it is intended to be sustained. But, make sure it is intended/allowed to happen beyond (way bepond), instesd of before, impact.
__________________ Yani Tseng, Go! Go! Go! Yani Tseng Did It Again! YOU load and sustain the "LAG", during which the "LAW" releases it, ideally beyond impact.
"Sustain (Yang/陽) the lag (Yin/陰)" is "the unification of Ying and Yang" (陰陽合一).
The "LAW" creates the "effect", which is the "motion" or "feel", with the "cause", which is the "intent" or "command".
"Lag" is the secret of golf, passion is the secret of life.
Think as a golfer, execute like a robot.
Rotate, twist, spin, turn. Bend the shaft.
1. Is the pivot actually slowing down? it does seem to. However, my hips still lead throughout the sroke even though during this apparent slowing-down, my arms are speading up.
2. Is the component we are talking about the "Sholder throw trigger" vs the "wrist throw"?
3. As both of you talk about these movements, I can feel them because this is what I do when I try to accentuate the #4 accumulator. The idea I have is to start down, then slow the hips (the right shoulder stays down and on plane), then energy seems to transfer from the torso to the arms. The arms speed up fast. It almost feels like I'm standing still when the ball is struck.
4. This is not my normal pattern. Normally, the right shoulder moves down and out all the way to impact.
1. Is the pivot actually slowing down? it does seem to. However, my hips still lead throughout the sroke even though during this apparent slowing-down, my arms are speading up.
2. Is the component we are talking about the "Sholder throw trigger" vs the "wrist throw"?
3. As both of you talk about these movements, I can feel them because this is what I do when I try to accentuate the #4 accumulator. The idea I have is to start down, then slow the hips (the right shoulder stays down and on plane), then energy seems to transfer from the torso to the arms. The arms speed up fast. It almost feels like I'm standing still when the ball is struck.
4. This is not my normal pattern. Normally, the right shoulder moves down and out all the way to impact.
1) Yes. The Pivot slows down during the Downstroke, but you should also preserve the Downstroke Release Sequence (6-M-1) and the consequent Lag and Drag in the Pivot Train (6-C-0).
2) The Shoulder Turn Throw (10-20-C) should always be used with the Wrist Throw (10-20-E). Otherwise you will be contending with Clubhead Throwaway, or a Full Sweep Release if skilfully performed with Educated Hands (10-20-A). So, start with the Shoulder Turn Throw, then finish it off with a Wrist Throw and Delivery Path Throw (10-20-D) combo to get nice Automatic Snap Release (10-24-E).
3) Even though your Pivot does and should slow down to blast that essentially inert Left Arm off, it shouldn't be a deliberate 'applying the breaks' type movement. That would be like Steering the Pivot.
4) All the Patterns Yoda and I described have the Right Shoulder 'On Plane' on the Downstroke. This is regardless of whether you're using a Shoulder Turn Throw or Shoulder Turn Thrust.
1) Yes. The Pivot slows down during the Downstroke, but you should also preserve the Downstroke Release Sequence (6-M-1) and the consequent Lag and Drag in the Pivot Train (6-C-0).
2) The Shoulder Turn Throw (10-20-C) should always be used with the Wrist Throw (10-20-E). Otherwise you will be contending with Clubhead Throwaway, or a Full Sweep Release if skilfully performed with Educated Hands (10-20-A). So, start with the Shoulder Turn Throw, then finish it off with a Wrist Throw and Delivery Path Throw (10-20-D) combo to get nice Automatic Snap Release (10-24-E).
3) Even though your Pivot does and should slow down to blast that essentially inert Left Arm off, it shouldn't be a deliberate 'applying the breaks' type movement. That would be like Steering the Pivot.
4) All the Patterns Yoda and I described have the Right Shoulder 'On Plane' on the Downstroke. This is regardless of whether you're using a Shoulder Turn Throw or Shoulder Turn Thrust.
Tong, your points 1,2 and 3 were very clear. I lost you on point 4. Would you mind differentiating between the Shoulder Turn Throw and Shoulder turn Thrust? ST Throw = 10-20-C, ST Thrust = 10-?-? ??
10-20-C calls for a short, sharp acceleration (thrust?) of the right shoulder against the #4PP.
How are you defining a Shoulder Turn Thrust as a distinct component from the Shoulder Turn Throw. Is it a longer, more sustained thrust than the short, sharp acceleration of 10-20-C? Is this more compatible with the driving right arm of the hitters motion?
Tong, your points 1,2 and 3 were very clear. I lost you on point 4. Would you mind differentiating between the Shoulder Turn Throw and Shoulder turn Thrust? ST Throw = 10-20-C, ST Thrust = 10-?-? ??
10-20-C calls for a short, sharp acceleration (thrust?) of the right shoulder against the #4PP.
How are you defining a Shoulder Turn Thrust as a distinct component from the Shoulder Turn Throw. Is it a longer, more sustained thrust than the short, sharp acceleration of 10-20-C? Is this more compatible with the driving right arm of the hitters motion?
Thanks,
Triad
The Shoulder Turn Throw is a Trigger Type, whereas Shoulder Turn Thrust describes the use of the Right Shoulder to drive the Lever Assemblies and is not a Trigger Type. You need Shoulder Turn Thrust to use the Shoulder Turn Throw.
For both Hitters and Swingers, the Right Shoulder is used to overcome the initial inertia of the Clubhead during the change in direction. After this inital phase, the Hitter uses the Right Shoulder as a backstop for the Right Arm to push off. However, for the Swinger, the Right Shoulder continues to actively drive down plane against Pressure Point #4. Only for the Full Power Four Barrel Hitting Stroke does the Right Shoulder continue to be active, but it is still used by the Right Arm to push off.
Whatever you choose to do, the Right Shoulder is always leading the Hands (i.e. lagging Hands, Arm and Club -- "Pivot Lag").
The Shoulder Turn Throw is a Trigger Type, whereas Shoulder Turn Thrust describes the use of the Right Shoulder to drive the Lever Assemblies and is not a Trigger Type. You need Shoulder Turn Thrust to use the Shoulder Turn Throw.
For both Hitters and Swingers, the Right Shoulder is used to overcome the initial inertia of the Clubhead during the change in direction. After this inital phase, the Hitter uses the Right Shoulder as a backstop for the Right Arm to push off. However, for the Swinger, the Right Shoulder continues to actively drive down plane against Pressure Point #4. Only for the Full Power Four Barrel Hitting Stroke does the Right Shoulder continue to be active, but it is still used by the Right Arm to push off.
Whatever you choose to do, the Right Shoulder is always leading the Hands (i.e. lagging Hands, Arm and Club -- "Pivot Lag").
Thanks Tong. I have a few more questions, but it may be more appropriate to start a new thread on them. However, if you could humor me for one quick one to jump start my thought process I would appreciate it. I have always been a little blurry on the difference between Trigger Types and Release Types. My basic thought is that Trigger Types refer to the how of the accumulator release sequence whereas Release Types refer to the when/wherethey are released. That is to say that, for instance, the Wrist Throw trigger could occur at the TOP/Startdown for a Full Sweep release, or much deeper, say at Aiming Point for a Snap Release. Both procedures would be using the same Trigger Types, but at different Release Types/points. Am I on track here?
Thanks,
Triad
Thanks Tong. I have a few more questions, but it may be more appropriate to start a new thread on them. However, if you could humor me for one quick one to jump start my thought process I would appreciate it. I have always been a little blurry on the difference between Trigger Types and Release Types. My basic thought is that Trigger Types refer to the how of the accumulator release sequence whereas Release Types refer to the when/wherethey are released. That is to say that, for instance, the Wrist Throw trigger could occur at the TOP/Startdown for a Full Sweep release, or much deeper, say at Aiming Point for a Snap Release. Both procedures would be using the same Trigger Types, but at different Release Types/points. Am I on track here?
Thanks,
Triad
Yes, you are on track Triad! It's always good to keep the identities of these components separate, and deal with their interrelatedness with that in mind.
Like I said before, if you want a Snap Release (where the Release begins at the very end of the Delivery Path), there are certain Trigger Types (combinations) that are more compatible than others.
1. Is the pivot actually slowing down? it does seem to. However, my hips still lead throughout the sroke even though during this apparent slowing-down, my arms are speading up.
2. Is the component we are talking about the "Sholder throw trigger" vs the "wrist throw"?
3. As both of you talk about these movements, I can feel them because this is what I do when I try to accentuate the #4 accumulator. The idea I have is to start down, then slow the hips (the right shoulder stays down and on plane), then energy seems to transfer from the torso to the arms. The arms speed up fast. It almost feels like I'm standing still when the ball is struck.
4. This is not my normal pattern. Normally, the right shoulder moves down and out all the way to impact.
1. Yes, eventually and I prefer it happens as late as possible. In terms of the arms, I intentionally keep them (accumulator lag) synchronized with the pivot (pivot lag), at least beyond impact.
2. I don't intentionally "throw" anything, but sustain the lag by "pulling/dragging" the club for "swinging" and "bending/stiffening" the shaft for "hitting" with the hands.
3. It's definitely an option, but sound like a "throwaway" of the power accumulator. Feels pretty fast, yet the lag and thrust are gone. "Timing" is also involved here.
4. My pivot and shoulders move all the way to the finish.
__________________ Yani Tseng, Go! Go! Go! Yani Tseng Did It Again! YOU load and sustain the "LAG", during which the "LAW" releases it, ideally beyond impact.
"Sustain (Yang/陽) the lag (Yin/陰)" is "the unification of Ying and Yang" (陰陽合一).
The "LAW" creates the "effect", which is the "motion" or "feel", with the "cause", which is the "intent" or "command".
"Lag" is the secret of golf, passion is the secret of life.
Think as a golfer, execute like a robot.
Rotate, twist, spin, turn. Bend the shaft.
BTS
Thank you for your response. I've been studying this for some time. I agree with response #1 & 2 as this is my normal pattern for swinging too. However, the throw is from the wrists in this case. Nothing is actually thrown. The secondary lever assembly begins to accel. to impact. (i did'nt explain that very well).
#3, this is a point of confusion.
I may be confusing something here. If we let the pivot transport the power package into the release area (which we do), keeping the hands and club lagging, the I don't think that the #4 accumulator is being fully used. If we increase the spacing in a more sequenced release, then accumulators will be felt more like 4,2,3. With greater emphasis on #4. The #4 accumulator is more fully employed. It (#4) steals momentum from the pivot and begins moving the primary lever assembly. (the pivot actually feels like it transfered momentum to the left arm). The confusion for me is that now we seemingly have 2throws in one stoke pattern. Shoulder and wrist. It feels very powerfull and sounds dead perfect on the ball. I think that this procedure uses (is) a right arm swing but I'm not pulling with the right arm. I'm not sure though. The ball does travel about 5 yards more, and there seems to be a greater left hand/clubface contol feeling. The acuracy is better too. I think this is a result of the pivot slowing down thus giving the hands more time to conrol the pivot. I can also determine/contol when the left starts to come off the body. I can hold it untill just before release or from just after the initial hip accelleration. This is different from what you and I have as a standard pattern. Concerning your answer #4, mine do too.
However, and this is the big one...it works just as well with chipping and short pitches. Hmm... i've been working with right arm only chipping which is why I think it is more of a right arm swing. I'll keep reading and studying.
Hybrid Mode
