Keeping the right forearm on-plane

[Jeff]

When you state that Brian Gay's right forearm is on-plane at address, I think that you are only looking at a golfer who uses little plane shift and who swings along a plane that is just below the turned shoulder plane. That will mean that his right forearm will lie along that plane angle if he keeps his arms "straightish" at address.

However, that doesn't mean that swinging like Brian Gay is desirable or better than alternative choices.

For example, here is a swing video of Stuart Appleby.

He has a double plane shift swing - from the elbow plane to the turned shoulder plane in the backswing and vica versa in the downswing.

You will notice that his right elbow stays close to the elbow plane line during his entire backswing, but the right forearm moves off it during the later backswing. I think that the right forearm must always move off-plane during the backswing so that the right forearm flying wedge can end up being at a near-right angle to the left arm flying wedge at the end-backswing - like a strut supporting an airplane wing.

Jeff.

[KevCarter]

When you state that Brian Gay's right forearm is on-plane at address, I think that you are only looking at a golfer who uses little plane shift and who swings along a plane that is just below the turned shoulder plane. That will mean that his right forearm will lie along that plane angle if he keeps his arms "straightish" at address.

However, that doesn't mean that swinging like Brian Gay is desirable or better than alternative choices.

For example, here is a swing video of Stuart Appleby.

...

Jeff.

Jeff,

Thank you, I appreciate you trying to help. Of course there is more than one way, that is the entire premise of The Golfing Machine. However...

Yoda has shown me through this video of Brian Gay a very valid way to set up and swing. He has documented areas in the yellow book to back it up. He has real world experience from thousands of lessons, displays it in action, and you can watch it in action at the highest level on TV. It is one thing to show fancy graphs and 3D images, and use words that only biomechanics understand, it is another to see it work in the real world. I believe in The Golfing Machine, I want to be what some doubters on other forums would call a "book literalist." My goal is to someday attend AI classes and attempt to pass the tests.

The way Brian Gay is setting up with his right forearm is going to be an option in what I teach, as will a double plane shift as Applebees swing is a wonderful model as well. I also like S&T, there are many valid options available that Homer Kelley would approve of.

I have chosen my course and that's where I am going to continue heading.

Thanks again,
Kevin

[Jeff]

Kevin

I think that you may have misunderstood the primary intent behind my statement when I stated-: "However, that doesn't mean that swinging like Brian Gay is desirable or better than alternative choices."

You highlighted in bold the first section of that sentence regarding "desirability". It was my mistake to phrase the statement in that manner because it gives readers the incorrect impression that I do not think it is desirable - which wasn't my intention. I mainly wanted to state that it is not necessarily more-or-less desirable than swings that have slightly more plane shift - like Stuart Appleby's swing. Brian Gay has a wonderful swing that is very TGM-sound, as is Stuart Appleby's swing. I think that the question as to whether an individual golfer should chose the Brian Gay model or the Stuart Appleby model is significantly dependent on body physique and biomechanical predispositions (strengths and weaknesses).

Jeff.

[KevCarter]

Kevin

I think that you may have misunderstood the primary intent behind my statement when I stated-: "However, that doesn't mean that swinging like Brian Gay is desirable or better than alternative choices."

You highlighted in bold the first section of that sentence regarding "desirability". It was my mistake to phrase the statement in that manner because it gives readers the incorrect impression that I do not think it is desirable - which wasn't my intention. I mainly wanted to state that it is not necessarily more-or-less desirable than swings that have slightly more plane shift - like Stuart Appleby's swing. Brian Gay has a wonderful swing that is very TGM-sound, as is Stuart Appleby's swing. I think that the question as to whether an individual golfer should chose the Brian Gay model or the Stuart Appleby model is significantly dependent on body physique and biomechanical predispositions (strengths and weaknesses).

Jeff.

Jeff,

Thank you very much for clearing that up for me! I did take your statement the wrong way. Jeff Evans, another TGM teacher who I respect immensely, is trying to teach me how to set up with my right forearm positioned like Mr. Gay. My old fat body won't quite allow it. Maybe when I lose 100 pounds!

I agree 100%, a valid option, but just that, an option. I like the way YODA says it in the video, you can certainly set up without your right forearm on plane, but why would you want to?

Thanks man,
Kevin

[mb6606]

Jeff,

Thank you very much for clearing that up for me! I did take your statement the wrong way. Jeff Evans, another TGM teacher who I respect immensely, is trying to teach me how to set up with my right forearm positioned like Mr. Gay. My old fat body won't quite allow it. Maybe when I lose 100 pounds!

I agree 100%, a valid option, but just that, an option. I like the way YODA says it in the video, you can certainly set up without your right forearm on plane, but why would you want to?

Thanks man,
Kevin

Using the desirable Turned Shoulder plane - I have yet to see anyone setup
truly on plane and not shift planes. You would have to match Dianne in the picture 10-6-B #1. Most setup closer to the elbow plane 10-6-A #1 and shift to the TSP.

[KevCarter]

Using the desirable Turned Shoulder plane - I have yet to see anyone setup
truly on plane and not shift planes. You would have to match Dianne in the picture 10-6-B #1. Most setup closer to the elbow plane 10-6-A #1 and shift to the TSP.

Agreed.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Jeff]

mb6606

Have you ever considered why golfers do not setup like Diane in 10-6-B?

Note that her right upper arm is along/parallel to the TSP. I think that it is biomechanically very difficult to fold the right elbow to achieve the desired right forearm flying wedge position with the hands behind the right shoulder at the end of the backswing - when starting with the right upper arm in that position. It is much easier when the right upper arm hangs down vertically - as in 10-6-A.

You used the word "desirable" with respect to the TSP. In what sense is the TSP desirable? Is it from the backswing and/or downswing perspective? Is it from a end-backswing or impact perspective?

Jeff.