Venturi? As in Ken Venturi? Surely you're not referring to the aerodynamic venturi effect (a decrease in static pressure_ which occurs in contracting duct flows situations).... which a golf ball is not... ever. Its the Magnus effect... circulation which causes lift just like on an airplane wing that you want to be talking about. And as far as the relative magnitudes are concerned... a 50 - 50 side v. back spin ratio would put the lift vector off a a 45 degree angle, in which case the ball would neither fly very far nor stay on the of the fairway... unless a gale just so happened to be blowing perpendicular the the fairway (at just the right speed) in which case the tournament would be postponed anyway.
Low boring flight on windy days? i.e. tee it low and de-loft accordingly .... yes ... there is less wind (aka graidient) close to earth's surface... makes sense in that situation but attempting to put a "counterbalancin" "english" side-spin on? That's messing with disaster imhop. Did Ken Venturi do that?
Hi no_mind_golfer.
I'm not an aeronautics engineer but I think Homer knew a bit about aerodynamics...
I was just using chapter "2-B TRAJECTORY CONTROL" as a reference. I might be wrong but Homer is talking about the Venturi Effect in there: "A speeding, spinning ball is subject to the Venturi Effect, meaning that an increase in the velocity of a flow of air decreases its cross-sectional pressure" etc...
Anyway, I've never heard about the Magnus effect and you could be right as well.
However, we all agree that a draw is giving the longest possible shot with a lower trajectory than a fade for example.
So it makes sense to use such a shot (a "punched drawing ball") while the wind is facing you (I never sait sideways).
But you are right; the configuration of the fairway should comply with such a shot: Dogleg left or wide enough to accommodate for the right to left ball flight.
Now, the only Ken Venturi effect I found doesn't relate to Trajectory Control but can keep you forever young
__________________
"From Putter to Driver, the Clubhead Lag technique is indispensable..." (6-C-2-A) Lag is the SECRET of golf!
I can assure you I'm right and Homer is wrong. He wasn't either an aerodynamicist or an engineer. He was QC technician who did the best he could given limited knowledge. If you're going to teach it... you have an obligation to get it right IMOP. Glad I could be of some help.
Originally Posted by yodeli
Hi no_mind_golfer.
I'm not an aeronautics engineer but I think Homer knew a bit about aerodynamics...
I was just using chapter "2-B TRAJECTORY CONTROL" as a reference. I might be wrong but Homer is talking about the Venturi Effect in there: "A speeding, spinning ball is subject to the Venturi Effect, meaning that an increase in the velocity of a flow of air decreases its cross-sectional pressure" etc...
Anyway, I've never heard about the Magnus effect and you could be right as well.
However, we all agree that a draw is giving the longest possible shot with a lower trajectory than a fade for example.
So it makes sense to use such a shot (a "punched drawing ball") while the wind is facing you (I never sait sideways).
But you are right; the configuration of the fairway should comply with such a shot: Dogleg left or wide enough to accommodate for the right to left ball flight.
Now, the only Ken Venturi effect I found doesn't relate to Trajectory Control but can keep you forever young
Last edited by no_mind_golfer : 02-10-2009 at 02:16 PM.
Yodeli,
I have one question regarding the links you provided for the face-on and top view swings.
In both cases it looks like the "Impact" point is in front of the right shoulder? Since everyone has discussed ball position as being no further back than between the feet (center).
The low-point being in front of the left shoulder (right hander).
Artistic license to get the point across. With the "extreme" it is easier to draw the diagram and show the "divot" and the "out".
Hi Wali, Golfguru is right: the drawings are exaggerated and not at scale. The purpose here is to put the emphasis on what happens between impact and low point and to see the role of the left shoulder as the center of the stroke.
The reality is less 'extreme' and, of course, the common ball position ranges from the middle of your feet to in front of the left shoulder.
However, you could choose to play a ball in front of your right foot with a wide stance...but to be geometrically correct, you would have to dig deep into the ground to low point and beyond with a divot the size of your stance - ouch!!!
This is maybe the reason why we usually shorten the stance with wedges !
__________________
"From Putter to Driver, the Clubhead Lag technique is indispensable..." (6-C-2-A) Lag is the SECRET of golf!
I can assure you I'm right and Homer is wrong. He wasn't either an aerodynamicist or an engineer. He was QC technician who did the best he could given limited knowledge. If you're going to teach it... you have an obligation to get it right IMOP. Glad I could be of some help.
Good point no_mind, I was too lazy to check out what you wrote because I used to listen to Homer's words as a TGM fanatic monk(ey) !
But the link you provided is quite clear...
What Homer described as the Venturi effect is indeed the Magnus effect.
Aaaaah, at last, The Man made a mistake!
This TGM stuff was way too perfect to be true!
Homer was human: It makes me a believer monk more than ever!
Gimme a banana!
__________________
"From Putter to Driver, the Clubhead Lag technique is indispensable..." (6-C-2-A) Lag is the SECRET of golf!
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