I only said there is MUCH discussion on pushing #3 NOT that I think it should be pushed. I am ONLY interested in APPLICATION of #2, That would be the last 3 fingers on the left hand. It's application programming AT THE TOP. Its ability to "get the #3 moving through impact ( because there is a very strong alignment force on the clubface) . The need to meeter it out and roll to vertical at the correct time (because if U miss the hands come out to high) and have #2 residual to use between roll and finish an how it can change pace, 6-p-0, and if #2 is "muscled" the right forearm must be quicker and the #3 pressure may actualy decrease because the RPM has increased. These are all feel properties that WILL change with a conscious effort to use #2 to obtain velocity. I am interested in the input from those who, apply pressures to release #2 and not as I suspect, most just "let it happen by CF". This, #2, is a very UNDERDISCUSSED topic. As an example question. #2 may uncock on plane but once the swivel to vertical takes place uncocking then becomes below plane and and must be balanced? Or a bent plane line. It is one thing to perform the motion correctly. It is at another level to "HIT THE BALL HARD". And with a apparent lack of effort.
Last edited by HungryBear : 03-11-2010 at 02:51 PM.
I use a combination of pp#1 and pp#3 to time the release and to tune the degree of overlap between Acc#2 and #3 release.
I use pp#1 because I want to: Down stroke loading, timing and shot making. I use pp#3 because I can't avoid using it if I use pp#1. I driveload, but I prefer to let CF release accumulator #2 to the largest extent possible.
Hmm... maybe I should try to increase the overlapping grip with one more finger? That should enable pp#1 increase and pp#3 reduction shouldn't it?
Yes - and I don't do anything actively with pp#2 - except for what the subconcious will do to help me get the club correctly through the ball when something somewhere in the stroke is less than 100% OK.
I am ONLY interested in APPLICATION of #2, That would be the last 3 fingers on the left hand. It's application programming AT THE TOP. Its ability to "get the #3 moving through impact ( because there is a very strong alignment force on the clubface) .
K. Your 2's and 3 's.............even though you said "last three fingers" Im thinking you mean #2 Accumulator and #3 Pressure Point? Is that right?
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I am interested in the input from those who, apply pressures to release #2 and not as I suspect, most just "let it happen by CF". This, #2, is a very UNDERDISCUSSED topic. As an example question. #2 may uncock on plane but once the swivel to vertical takes place uncocking then becomes below plane and and must be balanced? Or a bent plane line. It is one thing to perform the motion correctly. It is at another level to "HIT THE BALL HARD". And with a apparent lack of effort.
When swinging I sometimes employ a Non Automatic, Left Hand Throw 10-20- somethingerother. I do like it. A lot. When Lynn first showed it to me I was like "why the heck didnt you show me this a year ago". I hammer it hard but On Plane. To do this , the Left Hand must be turned to the Inclined Plane. Swiveling the Left Hand off the Inclined Plane, Swivels the RFFW onto Plane right? Giving you an earlier Sweep Release with a non sequential , overlapping Sequence to boot. #2 and #3 together, again.
The Left Hand Throw, when "muscled" as you say,is a Non Automatic, "active", intentional hammering but will not take the club shaft under plane (point in side the plane line) after you swivel, I dont think. Not from what I seen in my own version of that operation. Im a Sweep Releaser despite my best efforts. The RFFW , the #3 pp at the first joint, is now on plane, directing , driving, if only passively for Swingers but still driving. Also the clubhead's orbit is "Resultant" of different forces with divergent vectors. See diagram 2-C-1 and 2-N-1. The Hammering though now not on plane has given way to the On Plane RFFW .
Its an interesting intellectual question or exercise but Id say if you're interested in a Non Automatic , Triggering of the #2 accumulator , On Plane ............just Hammer the thing but with your Left Wrist Turned to Plane. It will get you all the Down and therefore all the way OUt. Two dimensions of Three Dimensional Impact. In this regard Homer said that most people, most pros even dont get the job done as fully as possible. I find this hammering this Left Wrist Throw to be the best solution to this problem.
When I first saw Lynn hitting balls on the range at Orange County National I was befuddled. I asked my brother who was along riding shot gun that day; "Whats he doing?" "What is his secret to that explosive impact?". "He doesnt look like he's swinging harder or anything" . The Judge replied: "He hits down so HARD". Which in hind sight kind of sums it up Id say.
OB yes that is precisely what I was looking for. "Hammering" useing #2 which is the last three fingers on the left (hammer hand) DOWN plane. Not relying on only CF to start to uncock the left wrist (accumulator #2) in sequence. this, for me , does two things. It speeds up the motion and therefore makes #3 ZIP faster than any attempt at increasing #3 velocity with #3 pressure could dream of. I need a lot of #4 remaining or pivot will not get to where the hands expect it. About 2 years ago I tried to get this same "action" by "fanning with effort" the right forearm and was hitting spectacular shots that day. BUT I really hurt my right elbow. By "hammering" I also get/need a much faster right forearm fanning. Why has this all come back- well it is always in my noggin just never hatching? I have aid to myself many times when I read Hogan say at about that point. "Hit it hard now..." and when I see an interview with Fred Couples and he said that when he gets to release he "Hits it hard...” I am becoming convinced that THIS HAMMERING is the magic start to hit it hard. Last weekend we watched "Camilo Villegas" although he does have a few non recommended moves the one notable point is that he has a VERY short backstroke and a slow star down but when he gets down to the hitting zone the clubface has real ZIP.
He is swinging and the power is coming from his Popeye forearms.
Mind you, I would still like to hit like George Bayer but something tells me understanding the proper application and pace #2 can create is worthwhile. That is why I am seeking the best experience testimony I can find.
I haven't seen Yoda in person, but his ball striking looks very very good to my eye. I will never look as good and the more I try to copy him the worse my ball striking gets.
I don't believe in forcing an early release of the peripheral parts of the golf stroke. Per HK you don'e want anything above to catch up with anything below before the ball has gone. Drive the feet, drive the hips, drive the shoulders, drive the arms. If the ball hasn't gone by then you can try do drive the club as well but it will not make a big difference IMO.
I've tried a lot of things lately. And quite a few others a few years ago. What it boils down to me is to maximize the pivot thrust. With differnt swings, as long as I get the geometry right, the swing speed basically remains the same. One of the things that differs is thrust through the ball. Another differentiator is the stability.
Forcing a release of the club will slow down your hands. Forcing a release of the arms will slow down your pivot. I think you should build things from ground up, and first do as much as you can with the pivot - then with the arms and then fire the club.
With a slight modification for hitters: You are allowed to do peripheral activities as long as they don't override the central movements.
Personally I'm convinced that the best way to create a powerful release of accumulator #2 is to use everything you've got to charge it during the down stroke. When CF takes over you can try to add a little extra. I don'd believe in hammering the hand and arms down the inclined plane as an active move because you have to slow down your pivot to do it. But I believe it may be a good teaching device to get rid of the steering mentality.
Your sore right elbow......... is a probable sign of Right ARm Swinging. A very good method but susceptible to this problem. You dont push a car with your right arm fanned, reckoned Homer. It puts too much stress at the elbow. Like a baseball pitcher maybe. I dont know, Im Canadian. Hmm well Fergie Jenkins was Canadi........a forget about it. Ask me about hockey and head shots, that I know first hand about.
You mention having a lot of #4, agreed. It makes total sense. For this Swingers Left Hand Throw procedure we are talking about, Drag Loading is a likely part of the Pattern. Ground up, 6-M-1. Pivot Power. Loading the knuckle. The Pivot takes the intact Power Package to its Release Point. Then you Trigger Release via a Throw .....of some sort. The later the better for the Swinger seeking distance.
Id venture that when you were Right Arm Swinging , assuming you were, you got a lot of the OUT normally supplied by the Pivot, via the Right Arm. In the absence of the Right Arm Swing, you'd need more Pivot. Hence your feel for the need of more #4 pressure, maybe. The Hitter and the Right ARm swinger dont need #4, Pivot like the Swinger does, they get the CF like Throwout elsewhere, most often. Not wanting to be accused of generalizing.
Im sort of guessing at all of this, but hopefully this line of thinking resonates. In short, and as you obviously know, its a system.
Bear, the other possibility is that I'm making all of this up......................which could be also be true. My grandmother was Irish after all.
Bear, the other possibility is that I'm making all of this up......................which could be also be true. My grandmother was Irish after all.
Not made up at all O.B. Here is what Homer said in 7-19 of the 6th edition:
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The “Right Arm Swing” is simply 10-3-K with the loosened Wrists (7-1) and longitudinal acceleration using 7-19-3 above. Only with this “Rope Handle” procedure can the Right Arm be said to “Swing” – and still per 1-L-9 and -10. But with the Axe Handle procedures there must be a straight line piston to avoid injury of the right elbow ligaments. So, if there is a twinge in the elbow, you are Swinging the Right Arm.
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I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
At the risk of hijacking my own thread. The “experiment “ I was working with on the days I “tweeked” my elbow was INCREASING EFFECTIVE MASS, 2-E, 2-M-1, 2-M-2, 2-M-3. ( adding #1 to an elbow that is in front and pitching) [ 4 barrel swing] . I want that wet mop feel and at the same time I do not want ANY deceleration, OF ANYTHING through impact I want acceleration of EVERYTHING THROUGH to follow through. Did you ever see Ted Williams or Mickey Mantle break the handle off their bat just by swing force not by hitting the ball? (for you hockey guys that would be BH or GH breaking their stick before they get to the puck on a slap shot) Well,I have, And, I want to break the shaft without contacting anything. I will argue, that as CF increases the radius the club try to “back up” the hands. If I just let it happen everything slows down in spite of the “heavy” (But not what it should be) feelings in the hands. I want it to have mass and maintain velocity. I like Drew’s exercise of learn to throw a club down range BUT I think there are 2 things to look for; 1. Throw in the correct direction and 2. Throw it club head first (Does the club do a helicopter down range or is it an arrow?) I think if this can be done you become “King of the world” So, why let #2 flop around and contribute nothing but motion?
I need to mention. I need to find MAX so I can adjust back to OK.
The Bear
Last edited by HungryBear : 03-13-2010 at 10:57 AM.
There is a tradeoff between clubhead speed and hand speed in the golf stroke. If I take what you say literally I read that you wish to reduce your clubhead speed to increase your hand speed.
If you go for a snap release it will have a slow down effect on the hands. This is a good thing because it means that a bigger portion of the energy you generate in your down stroke is allocated from your body parts to the club head. This slow down can be fought of course if you're able to keep upp the good work and not just freewheel through the ball.
Homer called it resistance against slowdown and that is probably as good as it gets without killing the clubhead speed.
Personally I want maximum (or very close to maximum) swing speed through the ball. And then I want to add all the thrust I am able to deliver. Successful thrusting possibly gives 10-20 yards extra but only when the swing speed is intact.
Hybrid Mode
