After some reflection I noticed that the head (and pivot center) is attached to the left shoulder (low point). Further studies revealed its also attached to the right shoulder as well.
I know you see the implications and use them like colours on your paint palette. Just some of the tools of the trade.
You wrote-: "The other other way at looking at this is that he is managing his low point for the shot at hand. The ball forward of low point, his head back in an effort to launch a sky high ball for extreme distance. An artificial uphill type shot."
I disagree. He is making no attempt to hit up on the ball. He simply knows that if he gets his hands opposite his left thigh by impact, that the club's forward kick will cause the clubface to be facing upwards - if the ball is teed a little further.
Jamie Sadlowski was trained by Jason Zuback. There is no hip sway in Jamie's swing. The only difference to Jason Zuback's swing is that Jason positions his head centrally while Jamie positions his head further back - because he knows that he is going to have a lot of secondary axis tilt at impact when he swing his clubhead at >150mph through the impact zone.
Here is a swing video of his swing.
He does not sway in the backswing. Note how he braces his left side to keep in balance. He also needs secondary axis tilt to keep in balance. He only weighs 165lbs and his frame is much smaller than Jason's heavy torso. Jason can perform a more centralised swing and still keep in balance because of his heavy frame, but Jamie's body frame is different and he chooses to have more secondary axis tilt to keep in balance.
Jeff.
p.s. You don't have to worry about "increased secondary axis tilt" hurting my back. I have such little hula hula flexibility that I cannot achieve 50% of Jamie's secondary axis tilt. I guess I don't need it with a clubhead speed of 95mph.
Good job, O.B. Left. These were the determining "Excessive Axis Tilt" factors that jumped out at me. In other words, the extreme condition evidenced in Jamie's swing is the result of his specialized procedure designed to minimize spin, not a need to stay "in balance".
Backspin is Compression Leakage. Under normal circumstances, it is a desired effect that results in Ball Control. But 'long drive' contestants are far more interested in Distance than Accuracy. Hence, they attempt to minimize Backspin, and in so doing, produce the near-equivalent of the baseball pitcher's knuckleball. A teed, intentional "flyer".
Interestingly, Deane Beaman, the former PGA TOUR Commissioner and also a former U.S. Amateur Champion and TOUR player, on several occasions beat Jack Nicklaus (and everybody else) in the exhibition long-drive contests held at various TOUR stops. What makes this a big deal is that Deane was one of the shortest hitters on TOUR! His secret? He would deliberately hit the ground just before impact, create a grass-driven flier, and let the 'no spin' knuckleball effect take care of the distance.
The long-drivers of today are accomplishing much the same thing . . .
Without the grass!
To piggyback on this, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has read of tour players making conscious changes to their setups/swings in order to max out distance on a particular shot, or have read about them using driver specs that don't max out their distance, in an effort to maintain control.
While there are some aspects of setup and swing that lend themselves to both greater control and distance, some are mutually exclusive to each other, and you have to make a choice as to which components you'll need to comprominse (either in totality or in degrees) in order to gain more of one over the other.
You wrote-: "The other other way at looking at this is that he is managing his low point for the shot at hand. The ball forward of low point, his head back in an effort to launch a sky high ball for extreme distance. An artificial uphill type shot."
I disagree. He is making no attempt to hit up on the ball. He simply knows that if he gets his hands opposite his left thigh by impact, that the club's forward kick will cause the clubface to be facing upwards - if the ball is teed a little further.
Jamie Sadlowski was trained by Jason Zuback. There is no hip sway in Jamie's swing. The only difference to Jason Zuback's swing is that Jason positions his head centrally while Jamie positions his head further back - because he knows that he is going to have a lot of secondary axis tilt at impact when he swing his clubhead at >150mph through the impact zone.
Here is a swing video of his swing.
He does not sway in the backswing. Note how he braces his left side to keep in balance. He also needs secondary axis tilt to keep in balance. He only weighs 165lbs and his frame is much smaller than Jason's heavy torso. Jason can perform a more centralised swing and still keep in balance because of his heavy frame, but Jamie's body frame is different and he chooses to have more secondary axis tilt to keep in balance.
Jeff.
p.s. You don't have to worry about "increased secondary axis tilt" hurting my back. I have such little hula hula flexibility that I cannot achieve 50% of Jamie's secondary axis tilt. I guess I don't need it with a clubhead speed of 95mph.
Jeff
Dont get me wrong I am very impressed by his swing given what it was built to do. I see a lot of good fundamentals for a monster. Never said he swayed, dont even have an opinion.
With the ball in front of low point which way is his club head going: Down , out and forward, or up, in and forward?
You wrote-: "The other other way at looking at this is that he is managing his low point for the shot at hand. The ball forward of low point, his head back in an effort to launch a sky high ball for extreme distance. An artificial uphill type shot."
I disagree. He is making no attempt to hit up on the ball. He simply knows that if he gets his hands opposite his left thigh by impact, that the club's forward kick will cause the clubface to be facing upwards - if the ball is teed a little further.
Jamie Sadlowski was trained by Jason Zuback. There is no hip sway in Jamie's swing. The only difference to Jason Zuback's swing is that Jason positions his head centrally while Jamie positions his head further back - because he knows that he is going to have a lot of secondary axis tilt at impact when he swing his clubhead at >150mph through the impact zone.
Here is a swing video of his swing.
He does not sway in the backswing. Note how he braces his left side to keep in balance. He also needs secondary axis tilt to keep in balance. He only weighs 165lbs and his frame is much smaller than Jason's heavy torso. Jason can perform a more centralised swing and still keep in balance because of his heavy frame, but Jamie's body frame is different and he chooses to have more secondary axis tilt to keep in balance.
Jeff.
p.s. You don't have to worry about "increased secondary axis tilt" hurting my back. I have such little hula hula flexibility that I cannot achieve 50% of Jamie's secondary axis tilt. I guess I don't need it with a clubhead speed of 95mph.
To hit the ball far . . . you extend from the feet up . . . each segment . . . . probably the biggest segment (really bunch of little segments) is the spine . . . . people who hit it really really long EXTEND/stretch out their spine . . .
Zuback even extends his spine on the back stroke ala Monty . .
You wrote-: "With the ball in front of low point which way is his club head going: Down , out and forward, or up, in and forward? "
Is has to be going up and not down. However that is significantly due to the club's independent kick-point action where the peripheral end of the clubshaft is not traveling in perfect straight-line-unison with the central part of the clubshaft. If you look at the central part of his clubshaft you will note that it has forward shaft lean - due to the fact that he is actually trying to get his hands ahead of the ball by impact. If he didn't have that much forward central shaft lean at impact, then he would be hitting more up at the ball at the exact moment of impact and he would lose considerable distance to a high ball flight trajectory.
In other words, although his clubhead is going up at impact, his thrust action is down-and-out-and-forward, and not up-and-in.
You wrote-: "The other other way at looking at this is that he is managing his low point for the shot at hand. The ball forward of low point, his head back in an effort to launch a sky high ball for extreme distance. An artificial uphill type shot."
I disagree. He is making no attempt to hit up on the ball. He simply knows that if he gets his hands opposite his left thigh by impact, that the club's forward kick will cause the clubface to be facing upwards - if the ball is teed a little further.
I'm pretty sure he's trying to hit the ball on the upswing. That's like longriver 101. If he didn't, he wouldn't hit the ball high enough. They can't get the launch conditions they're after by simply relying on the forward kick of the club; that wouldn't be enough with a 5* driver. That's why most of them play the ball so far forward, with it teed up so high. When I competed (or tried to is a more accurate statement) I teed the entire ball above the clubhead to try to knock the spin off my driver. I wasn't alone.
Jamie Sadlowski was trained by Jason Zuback. There is no hip sway in Jamie's swing. The only difference to Jason Zuback's swing is that Jason positions his head centrally while Jamie positions his head further back - because he knows that he is going to have a lot of secondary axis tilt at impact when he swing his clubhead at >150mph through the impact zone.
I don't think it's accurate to say that Sadlowski was trained by Zuback. He's played since he was 4 years old, and he didn't meet Zuback until he'd made it to Mesquite for the first time. As far as their swings are concerned, they're as different as night from day. I think the only similarities are that they're both short and Canadian
Here is a swing video of his swing.
He does not sway in the backswing. Note how he braces his left side to keep in balance. He also needs secondary axis tilt to keep in balance. He only weighs 165lbs and his frame is much smaller than Jason's heavy torso. Jason can perform a more centralised swing and still keep in balance because of his heavy frame, but Jamie's body frame is different and he chooses to have more secondary axis tilt to keep in balance.
Jeff.
p.s. You don't have to worry about "increased secondary axis tilt" hurting my back. I have such little hula hula flexibility that I cannot achieve 50% of Jamie's secondary axis tilt. I guess I don't need it with a clubhead speed of 95mph.
Not trying to give you a hard time, Jeff. Just clearing some things up.
12PB You wrote-: "To hit the ball far . . . you extend from the feet up . . . each segment . . . . probably the biggest segment (really bunch of little segments) is the spine . . . . people who hit it really really long EXTEND/stretch out their spine . ."
I agree that long drive competitors need to brace their spine and left leg for maximum stability and I think that goal is best achieved when the spine is straight (extended) and the left leg is straight (extended), and the spine is angled back slightly so that the skeletal axis from the head to the left foot is optimised for power and balance.
Your photos demonstrate that even Jason has considerable secondary axis tilt at impact.
Bigwill - don't apologise for giving me a hard time. Like every forum member, I have to defend the rationale of my opinions.
You wrote-: "I'm pretty sure he's trying to hit the ball on the upswing.".
He is trying to get the clubhead to hit the ball on the ball on the upswing, but he is not trying to hit up at the ball with his hands/central clubshaft. Note that his central clubshaft near the grip end of the club has forwards shaft lean, which means that his thrust action is still down-and-out-and-forward.
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