So with the Hands above the Right Shoulder at top......youve got problems in that the shoulders will pull the hands out and over top of the plane in startdown.
But what if the Hands are under the Right Shoulder........like they are when Hogan or Sergio are mid vertical drop? A down plane move of the Right Shoulder will have a corresponding off/under plane move of the hands wont it? What are the implications to the direction of the Shoulder turn then?
So with the Hands above the Right Shoulder at top......youve got problems in that the shoulders will pull the hands out and over top of the plane in startdown.
But the rt shoulder wont come off the TSP at start down if the rt hip clears and allow a clear path right?
Maybe a flatter BS and coming down the TSP is insurance against the opposite, a steep BS and "round house downswing?
Much of the difference between the TSP and Elbow Plane is Posture. Add a little #3 Accumulator Angle and Shazam!...
Quote:
2-P THE WRISTCOCK The Uncocking of the Flat Left Wrist is a Perpendicular Motion – not a Horizontal Motion (as defined in 4-0). The Left Wrist (6-B-2) is Cocked and Uncocked per Stroke Pattern (Chapter 12), per 4-B and per 4-D. It normally moves from “Cocked” to “Level” between Release and Impact, and from “Level” to “Uncocked” during the Follow-through.
So if the Left Wristcock is Level for Impact, then what is the difference between a TSP and Elbow Plane?
Much of the difference between the TSP and Elbow Plane is Posture. Add a little #3 Accumulator Angle and Shazam!...
So if the Left Wristcock is Level for Impact, then what is the difference between a TSP and Elbow Plane?
Originally Posted by dodger
Best thread in a long time. Interesting question. I follow David Sandridge's thoughts explicitly regarding the right hip clearing on the backswing. I have tended to turn the right shoulder too flat. Clearing the right hip on the backswing while moving the left shoulder down puts me in the position I need to be at the top. It is rotated appearing, but only because of my spine angle at setup. The more you bend from the waist, the more rotated you look. I clear the right hip at startup, my hands move in and up on plane and the shoulders do what they do according to my hands. My hands do not control the hip clearing which may be why Homer focuses on the rt hip clearing as a separate movement from the hands. But, the shoulders go where the hands tell them. Set-up, clear right hip, move hands back in and up on plane and the shoulder ends up pretty good. The pics of Toms and Goosen are illustrative because Goosen bends over a little more and his face is angled more to the ground. Interesting to hear Yoda's take, considering his recent talk on hands controlled pivot.
Man, so many wonderful comments from so many. I can't find anybody's bandwagon to not jump on. Bucket has become the master of personalizing these components for each individual. Isn't that what the machine is all about?
In my mind, if you look at Mr. Gay's shoulder turn as compared to Mr. Lovemarks, they are very similar in their inclination to the spine, which is exactly what I was trying to say. Bucket and Daryl do such a good job of showing it visually.
Thanks Guys!
Kevin
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Last edited by KevCarter : 03-10-2011 at 10:46 AM.
Man, so many wonderful comments from so many. I can't find anybody's bandwagon to not jump on. Bucket has become the master of personalizing these components for each individual. Isn't that what the machine is all about?
In my mind, if you look at Mr. Gay's shoulder turn as compared to Mr. Lovemarks, they are very similar in their inclination to the spine, which is exactly what I was trying to say. Bucket and Daryl do such a good job of showing it visually.
Thanks Guys!
Kevin
yea, Im diggin all the info as well....thanks fellas!
So with the Hands above the Right Shoulder at top......youve got problems in that the shoulders will pull the hands out and over top of the plane in startdown.
But what if the Hands are under the Right Shoulder........like they are when Hogan or Sergio are mid vertical drop? A down plane move of the Right Shoulder will have a corresponding off/under plane move of the hands wont it? What are the implications to the direction of the Shoulder turn then?
Thanks for the video, thats what Im wondering about.
You want the Pivot via the Right Shoulder to take the Hands down plane towards the plane line/ base line in Startdown, right? The reasoning behind the TSP angle(s). But if the Right Shoulder is above the Inclined Plane (as formed by the Hands and Base Line) , wouldnt the Right Shoulder have to move towards a point above/beyond the Base Line to get the Hands to go towards the Base Line?
I dunno. Hands direct the Shoulder to turn towards where ever , Hands to Pivot, it all works out? With TSP angle you get a definite Alignment with the Right Shoulder moving towards the Base Line in Startdown (only) as if it was gonna smack the ball. Im getting real fond of that actually, then a little Throw and Release. Three stage rocket.
Hey Bucket, look at what this guy is up to. Towel drill, Rotated? Is it a TSP too or not?
Thanks for the video, thats what Im wondering about.
You want the Pivot via the Right Shoulder to take the Hands down plane towards the plane line/ base line in Startdown, right? The reasoning behind the TSP angle(s). But if the Right Shoulder is above the Inclined Plane (as formed by the Hands and Base Line) , wouldnt the Right Shoulder have to move towards a point above/beyond the Base Line to get the Hands to go towards the Base Line?
I dunno. Hands direct the Shoulder to turn towards where ever , Hands to Pivot, it all works out? With TSP angle you get a definite Alignment with the Right Shoulder moving towards the Base Line in Startdown (only) as if it was gonna smack the ball. Im getting real fond of that actually, then a little Throw and Release. Three stage rocket.
Hey Bucket, look at what this guy is up to. Towel drill, Rotated? Is it a TSP too or not?
Let's take a few of these . . . these "intentions" may or may not work for all procedures . . . .
You want the Pivot via the Right Shoulder to take the Hands down plane towards the plane line/ base line in Startdown, right?
In some motions I believe this is correct for some plane angles . . . Here's Brian perfectly on plane . . . seems to be directing his hands toward the plane line . . .
Lovemark on the other hand I would say has an entirely different intention in terms of where his hands are being directed. Note the difference in the relationship of the shoulders to the hands. Note the angle of the left arm when it is parallel to the ground and its relationship to the stance line. Note the difference in the relationship of the left arm to the ground at "delivery" . . . Lovemark seems to be directing his hands at a point INSIDE the plane line . . . and the respective shoulder motions seem to me to support this "intention".
But if the Right Shoulder is above the Inclined Plane (as formed by the Hands and Base Line) , wouldnt the Right Shoulder have to move towards a point above/beyond the Base Line to get the Hands to go towards the Base Line?
I believe you are correct in regard to this statement . . . If you were able to track the motions of the right shoulder you would see that Lovemarks shoulder motion is likely pointing outside/above the plane line . .. supporting that particular handpath.
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