12PB You wrote-: "To hit the ball far . . . you extend from the feet up . . . each segment . . . . probably the biggest segment (really bunch of little segments) is the spine . . . . people who hit it really really long EXTEND/stretch out their spine . ."
I agree that long drive competitors need to brace their spine and left leg for maximum stability and I think that goal is best achieved when the spine is straight (extended) and the left leg is straight (extended), and the spine is angled back slightly so that the skeletal axis from the head to the left foot is optimised for power and balance.
Your photos demonstrate that even Jason has considerable secondary axis tilt at impact.
Jeff.
Jeff,
That is NOT at impact!
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If you cannot take the shoulder down the clubshaft plane, you must take along some other path and add compensations - now, instead of one motion to remember, you wind up with at least two!
12PB You wrote-: "To hit the ball far . . . you extend from the feet up . . . each segment . . . . probably the biggest segment (really bunch of little segments) is the spine . . . . people who hit it really really long EXTEND/stretch out their spine . ."
I agree that long drive competitors need to brace their spine and left leg for maximum stability and I think that goal is best achieved when the spine is straight (extended) and the left leg is straight (extended), and the spine is angled back slightly so that the skeletal axis from the head to the left foot is optimised for power and balance.
Your photos demonstrate that even Jason has considerable secondary axis tilt at impact.
Jeff.
Zuback will have THE MOST extension thru the ball . . . his spine ain't straight though . . . it's major reverse C'd . . . but not at the top.
That is a great picture for hitting really far. To my eye, his power package looks good TGM-wise, but his club is moving up because of the extreme tilt., which is a good thing if you want to win long drive contests.
You might notice how much the tilt has changed from the top. It is much more dynamic to change the tilt in the downswing than to pre-set it at address.
But.....Jason does not have to hit his next shot off the ground like a golfer would.
As for how high they launch it. You might try to find some launch monitor numbers for the long drive guys. It is a big adjustment to actually see the ball when you are standing next to them, because it launches so high.
You wrote-: 'It is much more dynamic to change the tilt in the downswing than to pre-set it at address."
It is much more dynamic to change from a slight reverse tilt (pivot) at the end-backswing to a large degree of secondary axis tilt at impact. However, I suspect that it far less mechanically efficient than Jamie Sadlowski's swing. He has no reverse tilt (pivot) at the end-backswing position. He has the classical reverse K position seen in Hogan's swing.
This is Jason Zubacks' secondary axis tilt and head position at impact.
Jeff.
Jeff
If you were to consider this photo impact for a moment and draw a line from Z's left shoulder down to the clubhead you could argue that this is a new low point line given his shoulder tilt. In that manner he could be said to be still hitting down and out!
This is what I was referring to when I mentioned the artificial up hill shot. You disregard the flat ground and artificially set up as if going uphill to launch the ball high. You need to make some adjustments so as not to bottom out early in the oh so real flat earth however.
There was another Canadian prior to Z who in the age of persimmon would tee a ball on a golf pencil for height, and then tilt way way back. Twenty years ago or so my buds and I would call this a Kelley Murray shot as we took our 10 degree persimmons over the tree tops on dog legs. Down wind it was a go to shot. The advent of metal drivers, that are so "just tee it up and hit and it will be ok" has taken away the need for most specialty shots off the tee. The high hook in a right to left wind that added 30 yards, the teed low heeled cut shot on a tight hole etc etc etc.
Jeff I should point out however that if you buy the "new low point" (NLP) you should in fairness also draw a line down from Z's head parallel to the NLP line. You will find it to be centered in his Imaginary new stance line ("INSL"). A new and centralized pivot center.
Thanks to Daryl and Jeff Hull for their "spirited" discussion on this and Hip Action in the Trophy Room of the Atlanta Country Club. Make that "wines and spirits".
To hit the ball far . . . you extend from the feet up . . . each segment . . . . probably the biggest segment (really bunch of little segments) is the spine . . . . people who hit it really really long EXTEND/stretch out their spine . . .
Zuback even extends his spine on the back stroke ala Monty . .
No PIE HERE EITHER . . . . no reverse K
Bucky
Whats the explanation of this phenomena? Does it have a practical application for the tournament golfer under normal conditions?
Dont be scared, this aint a trap. I dont care what you are reading or anything.
You wrote-: "The other other way at looking at this is that he is managing his low point for the shot at hand. The ball forward of low point, his head back in an effort to launch a sky high ball for extreme distance. An artificial uphill type shot."
I disagree. He is making no attempt to hit up on the ball. He simply knows that if he gets his hands opposite his left thigh by impact, that the club's forward kick will cause the clubface to be facing upwards - if the ball is teed a little further.
Jeff,
Where in his post did O.B. Left say that Jason Zuback was attempting to 'hit up'? Reread his post. What he 'said' and what you 'heard' are two totally different things. I'll save you some trouble, here is what this very educated golfer deliberately said: ". . . the ball struck on the upswing, the ball teed high and inside the base of the plane."
In other words, with the Ball properly teed post-Low Point, there is no need to 'hit up'. The Clubhead Orbit (2-N-0) goes DOWN (and OUT) to Low Point and then it moves UP (and IN) thereafter. Hence, O.B.'s observation that the Ball must be "teed high and inside the base of the plane". So, for those who understand and implement these Geometric Basics . . . Just swing. The resulting Upstroke is God's Plan.
And, Jeff, you need to seriously investigate this "forward kick" stuff. At some point, no doubt you will. But no fair relying on manufacturer's 'claims' (advertising) or TOUR players paid opinion (more advertising) . . . we're looking for independent research and PROOF This should keep you busy for awhile once we've thoroughly hammered-down all this Pivot stuff. We here at LBG are with you all the way!
Meanwhile . . .
Know that the 'Centrifugal Line of Pull' is between the Sweetspot and the #3 Pressure Point (Right Forefinger). [BTW, did you notice the bandages on Mr. Zubak's right forefinger and thumb? I thought you did!] If the Clubshaft's inertia can keep up with this Line of Pull -- highly doubtful with the LongDrive MuscleMen -- then you will have a straight-line relationship. Otherwise, the Shaft will evidence its parabolic bend between the two.
You interpret this Shaft Bend as "Kick" that Lays Back the Clubface. The truth is that Shaft Bend itself supplies neither 'Kick' nor 'LayBack'. For Swingers, it supplies only Centripetal Force. For Hitters, it supplies both Centripetal Force and something to Push against through Impact.
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